And even if we do want to invest in large amount of grid storage (which we would need to anyway, if we want to transition to renewables), I'm not sure pushing this down to the individual house is sensible. Its a great way to limit economies of scale and make maintenance/inspection harder.
In a longer outage it'd be a massive benefit to have even just a few houses here and there that retain power.
why not? Having distributed buffers ought to make the system more resilient in most cases wont it? Not to mention that these home level batteries can be used to smooth out power usage and lower peak loads.
In fact, having an EV car act as this same battery would be an even more efficient use of resources.
I'd prefer for the power coming to my house to just not go out. The grid operator can install batteries in places other than my home. The grid operator can maintain them for me. The grid operator can get cheaper loans than I can for installing them, they're staffed with supposed experts in this stuff, just have them handle it on their premises.
And once again, another point for growing the wealth gap. Poor people who can't afford the thousands of dollars for installing the batteries get shafted by such things instead of us assuming the grid operators will just smooth these prices out for us.
Once again in the end I'd just prefer if there were actors on the grid running massive batteries able to arbitrage the extreme spot prices and sell me electricity at a reasonable rate all the time instead of me having to actively min/max every dang thing every moment in my life.
Personally, I'd rather toss that $10k into my kids' education funds and sign up for a fixed rate electricity plan. Hopefully that'll be better ROI.
Grid-scale batteries have pretty different economics than some batteries in my garage. Their real-estate cost is probably significantly lower than the cost for halfway decent residential. They're buying a much larger order of batteries, so their per-kWh cost is probably a good bit lower. Also, their installation cost per-kWh is also a good bit cheaper. They're probably completely fine buying/selling purely on open spot markets, meanwhile in the end I'm going to need to run my pool pump and I'm going to want to do dishes and laundry and charge my car and all the other things on some reasonable schedule so I'd like some amount of price protection on whatever time-of-use plan I get (a day of $9/kWh electricity prices will surely wipe out whatever gains you might have made). They're probably able to get cheaper loans than me, so it's easier for them to arrange the big capital investment instead of high interest loans or having to invest existing capital.
I'm not arguing the economics of batteries don't make sense in today's power markets. Far from it, I've been toying with getting into it in North Texas. But buying a few kWh of batteries and putting them in my garage probably isn't going to break even and almost certainly isn't going to make me money.
Let's say you're in California, which has a pretty decent swing in energy prices available to the home consumer. You'll see prices swing between $0.27 to $0.65/kWh. You've got a 10kWh battery pack, so you can arbitrage something like $0.38/kWh * 10 kWh = $3.8/day, assuming you get a full charge cycle and ignoring efficiency for simplicity's sake. $114/mo. So assuming you didn't have any loans and you're ignoring opportunity costs on that $10k, your break-even is in ~88 months or ~7.3 years.
After a decade of ~$114/mo, you'll have offset $13,680, assuming you always used a full charge and you experienced no other maintenance costs and bought it cash on hand and that energy prices didn't change and had a perfectly efficient inverter to charge and discharge the batteries and the batteries still had 100% charge capacity the whole time. The 10-year CD, which you could just forget about for a decade, stands at $17,310.
And this is for one of the few markets in the US that really offers that big of a time of use plan other than "free nights and weekends***" (with pages and pages of fine print and other fees) For instance, I just looked at a time of use plan available to me here in North Texas. 9AM-4PM I'm billed at $0.068 for the generation, $0.050029/kWh plus a flat $4.23/mo for delivery. Outside of that window I only pay the delivery cost. But that means I'm only really able to arbitrage $0.68/day with a 10kWh setup. That's 490 months or a hair over forty years to break even.
I do have a 35 kWh propane fired generator onsite though, which does provide for outages regardless of where the break in the line is.
Also, this further just makes having stable electricity yet another thing in the wealth gap. Only those wealthy enough to afford the high upfront capital costs, the ongoing maintenance cost, and the space to store it get reliable electricity, fuck everyone else! Or we can just focus on investing in a stable and clean grid and share that cost with everyone, all you need is to just be connected.
But hey if I get a massive battery bank I'll have power for when the end times come. I won't be able to go get groceries anymore and eventually the fiber line and radios around me will go quiet but at least I'll be able to play videogames. For a few hours at least.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an Eagle Scout, be prepared and all that. I've got a big pile of charcoal, a chunk of propane, a camping stove, several day's supply of water and canned/non-perishable foods, some batteries for lanterns, etc. The cars all get topped off when big storms seem possible. If the big outage comes this will be more worthwhile than being able to turn on the TV for a few hours, and cost significantly less than several dozen kWh of batteries. And if the power is out for more than a week or two I'll have far bigger concerns than being able to post on Hacker News.
They can still do so for other reasons, like a short circuit in the wiring.
And that said, I do have lots of other somewhat beefy batteries around the house. They do a lot of useful things for me such as power my tools including my lawn mower, string trimmer, hedge trimmer, saws, etc. There is a massive one in the car parked in the garage. In these cases it is a useful trade off of that slight risk as I'm actually getting something normally useful out of it.
You could distribute this capacity at each house and feed it back to the grid during peak times. But is TCO of 1000 * 100kWh same price as 100MWh worth of capacity?
If you're going to have the battery anyway(a car) its hard to compete with, but once you need more capacity, I'm not sure it makes sense to distribute it quite as much.
I’ve set this up on my “smart” thermostat to speed up just before rates go up and kick off for a while once they do (and it was a pain to setup, somehow this functionality was not baked in)
And if someone is dumb enough to do high load stuff on their own battery during a blackout, then it's less of a problem for others. Also individual failures will cover less homes.
Incentives and consequences will be different and differently spread.
And on individual level, you can also chose whether you want this or are fine with outage. (I'm against mandating this)
I bought a generator for just this situation.
[1] https://www.wedistrict.eu/interactive-map-share-of-district-...
The thing you said doesn't really make sense to me; I'm not sure it's an apt analogy.
That is just shifting someone else's mistake into being my responsibility.
I know so many people who invested in overly expensive battery storage systems for their solar. Power in Germany is expensive, but even with that expensive power many of those battery systems will never hit a positive ROI. But they’re still happy for the feeling of being „independent“.
I’ll turn 26 in a few months. The first time I experienced a power outage in my life was two weeks ago when a construction worker in our basement drilled into the wrong wall…
I predict that home batteries will become a "no brainer" from a financial perspective (for anyone who has the upfront capital to purchase them) within the next 10 years.
Battery storage may become a bit of a no brainer from a purchasing price point of view, but I don't think it will actually be more beneficial for people, especially if BEV adaption continues at a similar rate and bi-directional charing becomes widespread
20kw/hr of just storage is about $10k. Every one of these companies also has standard DC input ports for bring your own solar panels, because their panels are overpriced.
The 8-Bit guy has been using such a system to maintain his studio. It is reliable, uses cheap solar panels. This stuff is commodity.
Like it or not but we are a species of social animals, you cannot live without relying on others. That's just delusional.
If electricity is that important to you, buy your _own_ resilience. Tesla powerwalls and non-tesla equivalents have been available for ages.
power cuts affect more than just your home.
And then he chooses the one big corporation which has a guy in the government.