I guess the difference is that I'm aware of it and I try to fight it. The ability to empathise with those whom you disagree with or share little in common with is a skill that can be learnt, and one we should try to teach to our children. And I mean this in its most extreme sense. If you can't empathise with someone you find truly bad/evil, that's a problem because we can always view others as bad/evil if it allows us to justify our lack of empathy towards them. Typically its those who we believe instinctively deserve the least empathy which we must proactively try our hardest to understand and care about. You see this all the time in war – they're the bad guys and deserve the bad things we do.
Unfortunately I'm not sure how practical what I'm saying is at its limit. Something you quickly realise when you practise being empathetic to everyone is that people will take advantage of that. But still, as a trend the world would be much a better place if more people could see past differences and care for the suffering of people equally.
Even still, have previous recent or concurrent conflicts like Myanmar or Sudan not caused you to lose faith either? I often find people who say this have some personal vested interest in this particular conflict and find it somewhat hypocritical that other such conflicts have not moved them the same way, for it's still humans fighting each other after all.
> Also big companies, they only care about money, ethics and morale do not exist, they only care about money money and more money.
I mean, yes, that is the purpose of corporations, they do not have morals by themselves. They are like machines to absorb money, you wouldn't expect a lawnmower to have ethics when it runs you over.
Still gaza war feels different, maybe because it’s almost streamed live on social media platforms by the directly impacted people?
I don’t agree with the statement that corporations are machines to absorb money, behind corporations there are people and people must have morale.
This is covered by the principle of the diffusion of responsibility. One person may have morals but spread over many, the entire structure does not. Those corporations that do have morals are outcompeted by those that don't, in terms of amount of money made, so over time corporations that are not moral do better.
The mistreatment of the Palestinians is long running, deliberate, calculated. The recent blood bath in Gaza is another entry in a long running tragedy.
Between River and Sea by Dervla Murphy is a wonderful, humane examination of the country. It's over a decade old but still very informative without being academic or dry. I would recommend it highly.
My main concern is how quickly what I would have considered Western value structures, democracy, press freedom, international law, reasonableness have evaporated and I now see the West, and the US in particular very differently.
Allowing one group, in fact enabling them in so many ways, of people who we have close affiliations with to kill, starve, displace and torture an entire population, no matter the reason, just makes me see the world in a very different way.
This centuries illegal wars had opened my eyes somewhat but even those I'm going back to and re-evaluating and seeing them and the current situation as frankly great evils.
I'm old enough to not really have to worry for myself, but selfishly it does make me very concerned for my children.
And yes I am more than concerned for the Palestinians, if that is the "cause" you are referring to.
Blocking aid is not "the unfortunate reality of losing a war".
Bombing hospitals is not "the unfortunate reality of losing a war".
I never thought that people should be killed because of an election, today almost 50% of Gaza people are <18 which means they were not even born when the elections of 2006! are we saying that 1M are responsible for what is happening to them? Also, in the future the same argument could be used against the other party blaming them that they elected a far-right party, both parties should settle down and end this hate cycle once and for all.
And please we are in 2025 we are not in WWII anymore, if it happened to germany doesn’t justify making it happen again, we should learn from the mistakes of the past instead of repeating them.
Unfortunately there is no way for the innocent youth of Gaza to rid themselves of Hamas. In fact Hamas actively endoctrinates the youth.
The only way for Gazan youth to be saved from a cycle of terrorist-led hatred is for Israel (or another developed power) to remove the terrorists.
If I were in charge, I would create the circumstances that prevent poverty, create work, and encourage cooperation between both nations hoping that time will heal the hate and anger that both sides accumulated over the years, this requires wisdom and patience from the political party that is smart enough to understand that neither party can redeem the whole land for themselves.
But as long as each party refuses to accept the other, regardless if they say it publicly or not the hate will never end.
Israel was biggest employer of palestinians from gaza and west bank. In fact, week before oct 7 number of work permits for gazans went up by 10k or 15k. This was because there were thought that economically stable gaza will be less likely violent and that hamas is somewhat interested in state building and prosperity. In aftermath of oct 7th turned out that workers from gaza (with permits) were scouting areas where they worked in order to make a detailed maps for attack and a bunch of attackers actually carried work permits.
when israel left gaza in 2005, inside israel was popular expression that "now that palestinians have complete self rule there, it's up to them what to build there, singapore or somali".
there is an israeli investor [1] who created design center in gaza, donated there money to hospital and employed palestinians from gaza and west bank. he daugher was murdered at nova. a bunch of people who lived in kibutzim around gaza were hardcore left and used to drive palestinians from gaza to treatments in israeli hospitals. they were murdered as well.
[0] https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1961/10/208-4/132...
[9] https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Gazas-Education...
Also Israel never left Gaza. They had complete control over the sea air and land entry and exit points. Gaza was essentially an open-air concentration camp. They even calculated the minimum calories required so that Palestinians would not be "overfed". I'm in constant disbelief about the nonsense that Zionists tell themselves.
There's no significant Hamas presence in the West Bank and yet there Palestinians are routinely kicked out of their homes, beaten and shot by fanatical settlers as the Israeli army supervises. That is the reality of Israel. A fascist ethnostate, lawless and hyper aggressive. A Rhodesia on the Mediterranean if you will.
Withdrawal from Gaza is very opinionated, some say it was to give Palestinians self rule as you say, many others see it as a tactical move making it an open air prison, and that Israel itself preferred that Hamas take over Gaza.
My only hope is that on both sides there are enough people that want to live in peace and prosperity with equal rights and care for each others regardless of their roots and don’t care if you call it Israel or Palestine or whatever.
Extremist groups in Israel came to life after second intifada and started as revenge groups, that performed same type of attacks that Palestinians performed on Israeli. You can say that they were radicalized by Palestinian violence (I think in your original post you were worried about results of radicalization as result of violence, didn't you ? Somehow people forget that it can go both ways). They also don't hold a candle to hamas/pij/pflp/etc and their actions way overreported and misreported [0] while other stuff is underreported [1]
Blockade of gaza mostly started in 2007 after palestinian elections of 2006 in which hamas won both in west bank and gaza (usa pushed to have election), failed coup (sponsored by usa) of PLO against hamas that resulted in hamas (internationally recognized terrorist organization). takeover of gaza in 2007. I want to remind that Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005 and what followed are hundreds of rockets on Israel [2]
[0] https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articl...
[1] https://www.jns.org/over-6300-terror-attacks-against-jews-in...
[2] https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/number-of-rocket-attack...
And the actions of Israel in the past 30 years, and affirmations from its leaders don’t seem to be moving toward the OSLO accords, otherwise why building all those settlements in the west-bank? It just doesn’t make sense.
anyway who cares about the past I am more interested in the future:
1) In your opinion how all this crisis could be solved?
2) If you had the misfortune of being born in Gaza, and obviously you cannot leave it, what would you do?
For hostages it seems that neither side wants them to be released, hamas wants to keep them to bargain and Israel uses them to have a reason to continue bombing Gaza.
Any Palestinian government should have full authority on its land, people, resources and financies, I agree that the current one is full of corruption but it is also largely controlled by Israel, even their wages pass from Isreal, a government with no authority is no government.
As for the school curriculum, again I had no idea and I searched and I found that both sides are guilty: [A study titled “Israeli and Palestinian textbooks erase the other side, report finds” analyzed dozens of school books (Israeli and Palestinian) and found that a large proportion of Israeli books (75%) and Palestinian books (81%) describe the other side as “the enemy.” This suggests that portrayal of the “other” as adversarial is common]
Most of the 100K either had another nationality or left for human aid (injured people), many of gazans already left their homes in 1984 and lived as refugees in Gaza, I don’t think they want to leave a second time because leaving means no coming back, also why those people should leave their land? They should have the right to stay there.
Finally for the last comment, do you think there is a place to hide? How can you get food? Medicine? Money? I can’t imagine being put in such conditions!
Can you? This commentary in your comment is verging on sealioning. Please read the guidelines.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
> Sealioning (also sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment that consists of pursuing people with relentless requests for evidence, often tangential or previously addressed, while maintaining a pretense of civility and sincerity ("I'm just trying to have a debate"), and feigning ignorance of the subject matter. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate", and has been likened to a denial-of-service attack targeted at human beings. The term originated with a 2014 strip of the webcomic Wondermark by David Malki, which The Independent called "the most apt description of Twitter you'll ever see".
What happened to them? I don't know, but their land is now claimed as a part of Israel. I don't believe they gave it up willingly. Back when people were debating genocide, one of the arguments was that there's more Palestinians than ever before. It used to be ~1 mil over the various states of Palestine, now it's ~5 mil in West Bank and Gaza, and many more all over the world.
The only ones left are the militants because everyone who tried everything else were killed or displaced.
It is time-consuming and pointless to answer questions that are made in bad faith. I'm happy to answer if it's an actual question with intent to understand, not undermine. The answer is there in the comment. But the majority of your post history is just bad faith political campaigning.
and what you do also textbook sealioning. It's when you pick the worst possible intepretation of the comment and go with it. literally what you did.
there were no palestinian fractions in past decades that advocated for peace and two state solutions and got killed or displaced.
this is the core reason for you not been able to answering such a simple question and sailing away into "bad faith" and "sealioning" arguments.
i was under impression that this site encourages fact based discussion. fact based discussion typically requires facts. you have none.
https://www.wikihow.com/Committing-to-the-Bit
This is what you sound like:
The only way out of this, while retaining some shred of humanity is through diplomacy, upholding international law, and centring the role of civil society and the huge numbers on both sides who want a peaceful, just coexistence.
The whole thing is sickening. Also hard to see how this can possibly improve Israel's security in the long term.