upvote

points

by SoftTalker2 days ago |
comments
upvoteby jonlucc2 days ago|
next
[-]
This is an inherent problem with storing power. There's a massive battery in Missouri known as the Taum Sauk hydroelectric dam. During the night, they pump water up the hill into the upper reservoir, and in the day, they let the water run downhill through turbines to generate electricity. In 2005, the wall of the upper reservoir failed.
reply
upvoteby jaggederest2 days ago|
prev|
[-]
Well we're probably going to see flow batteries take over in fixed position arrays which will mitigate the risk of fire pretty substantially, being low density and liquid. It's challenging though not impossible to light salt water on fire.
reply
upvoteby KaiserPro2 days ago|
parent|
next
[-]
> Well we're probably going to see flow batteries take over

Its unlikley, they are a massive pain to manage compared to lithium, expensive and have poor round trip efficiency. Oh and terrible energy density.

I'm not saying its impossible, but I'd be surprised.

I think the biggest two factors that play against them is that they round trip efficiency is something like 70-80% compared to 90%+. but the real pain in the arse is the charge managment. From what I understand, you need to charge them to full, and then discharge them fully. I don't believe that you can charge from halfway.

Most power markets work in 30miunute chunks, so managing charging/discharging would be really hard.

reply
upvoteby pfdietz2 days ago|
parent|
prev|
next
[-]
I thought the prospects for flow batteries were becoming fairly dire due to the decline in cost of Li-ion cells.

LFP promises better fire behavior than older Li-ion technologies, I think.

reply
upvoteby tooltalk2 days ago|
parent|
next
[-]
>> LFP promises better fire behavior than older Li-ion technologies, I think.

LFP's thermal runaway threshold is higher than other lithium ion battery types, but once TR starts, LFP generates more hydrogen gas that can explode if not air-vented out fast enough.

reply
upvoteby jaggederest2 days ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
I suspect for extremely large batteries or seasonal shifting (summer->winter) flow batteries will still have a place, but I could be wrong.
reply
upvoteby skybrian2 days ago|
parent|
next
[-]
Thermal batteries make more sense for that, but they need to be super-cheap. One possibility:

https://austinvernon.site/blog/standardthermal.html

reply
upvoteby pfdietz2 days ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
Flow batteries aren't any good for seasonal shifting; the capex per kWh-capacity is much too high. Granted, ordinary batteries aren't good for that either.
reply
upvoteby amitav12 days ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
"Ferb, I know what we're gonna do today"
reply