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Are you sure? I am talking about 60 and 70 year olds who can ride a non e bike 50+ miles without stopping, but who need an e-bike to ride 50+ miles at the same pace as their younger friends. How is that person not athletic? Sure they aren’t winning any gold medals, but they are still clearly in the top 1% of their age group.
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Surgery recovery, too. An older cyclist is going to need surgeries more often than a younger one, and will take much longer to recover. For some guys a high-end electric assist bike is how they stay riding with the A-group while they're recovering.
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Other than ego, what's forcing people recovering from surgery to ride with the A-group?
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Friendship and other social connections?
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What value is a friendship or connection that can not withstand a few months of "for the next months I will ride with some slower group" or "I may join you for the beginning but I can not go all the way"?
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What a weird take. It's not a case of "withstanding" a friendship, it's a case of enjoying some time with your buddies. If you enjoy spending time with the people you usually ride with why wouldn't you if given the ability to do so?
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What does "can not" even mean in this context? You could refuse to use an e-bike just like you could refuse to use an expensive bicycle.

Perhaps more interesting, a lot of people I know do train but don't push themselves to the limit. There is always something left in the tank. If their goal is to train to improve it's very [lets say] expensive. They invest a lot for small returns.

Now what if you could keep going if you would otherwise feel the need to quit?

I cycle for a good while then have to guess if ill still be able make it back home. Usually I bet on the safe side. When I bet to low I could add a few laps around the block but this requires an odd kind of discipline that I seem to lack.

Rather than grow it turns into a maintenance routine. If I wanted to do maintenance I would do much less and less frequent.

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> You could refuse to use an e-bike just like you could refuse to use an expensive bicycle.

I don't know if we are talking about the same thing. I am taking the argument from OP about "people recovering from surgery might need electric assist to keep up with the A-group", and I'm questioning this need.

If someone wants to have some assistance, then by all means go ahead and use it. I'm just not seeing why someone would need to have this sort of assistance, unless they are just doing some poor post-hoc rationalization for their wants.

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"Need in order to" is a common construction in English. It refers to a necessary condition, without placing any absolute constraints on the necessity. (Who's to say how the absolute "need" is defined? Do we need to live? Do we need good food, positive social interactions, exercise, shelter?)
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> "Need in order to" is a common construction in English.

I was paraphrashing. OP's original comment said "For some guys a high-end electric assist bike is how they stay riding with the A-group while they're recovering."

What I question here is, simply put, why "stay riding with the A-group" is in any way important? While one is recovering from surgery, what is so bad about riding with a B-group? Or why not ride with that A-group, but for a shorter distance?

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Humans being social animals.
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Is a ski lift athletic, it's powered. Does it make skiers inherently UN-athletic?

I've got a 12 mile bike commute with a big ass hill at the end. If I do 0 miles a day/week/ever without an electric bike to get me up that hill, or I do 8 miles 2x a week with the electric, am I not more athletic? Are firemen who use a hose that is powered by a pump less athletic than those who carry water in buckets?

If I'm normally sitting stationary and I do anything movement at all am I not, in fact, pushing the limits of my body?

My mom was 80, and had a stroke. She couldn't lift her toes on the right side, making it hard to walk without tripping. These shoes are for "everyday athletes". Does this make her completely unathletic, or do they, in fact, allow her to become more athletic than she could be otherwise?

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If it were solely about pushing the limits of the body, cyclists wouldn’t obsess about aerodynamics nearly as much and competitions would be about average watts over n-minutes or something like that.
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Random point (and definitely not agreeing with OP), but Zwift (and probably others before) has brought on an age of watts/kg competitions.

And a lot of being aerodynamic on a bike is athleticism: you need to be flexible enough and appropriately trained to be in the right posture. The bike frames, skinsuits, etc, are all in the "marginal gains" territory.

I still think OP's take is wrong though.

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I’ve heard of dirt jumpers using e-bikes to get more laps in for training to help them get familiar with the track.

Are you saying they are not athletic because they didn’t do all their training on a push bike?

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