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> Its also worth noting that if you can create a business with an LLM, so can everyone else. And sadly everyone has the same ideas

Yeah, this is quite thought provoking. If computer code written by LLMs is a commodity, what new businesses does that enable? What can we do cheaply we couldn't do before?

One obvious answer is we can make a lot more custom stuff. Like, why buy Windows and Office when I can just ask claude to write me my own versions instead? Why run a commodity operating system on kiosks? We can make so many more one-off pieces of software.

The fact software has been so expensive to write over the last few decades has forced software developers to think a lot about how to collaborate. We reuse code as much as we can - in shared libraries, common operating systems & APIs, cloud services (eg AWS) and so on. And these solutions all come with downsides - like supply chain attacks, subscription fees and service outages. LLMs can let every project invent its own tree of dependencies. Which is equal parts great and terrifying.

There's that old line that businesses should "commoditise their compliment". If you're amazon, you want package delivery services to be cheap and competitive. If software is the commodity, what is the bespoke value-added service that can sit on top of all that?

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> If software is the commodity, what is the bespoke value-added service that can sit on top of all that?

It would be cool if I can brew hardware at home by getting AI to design and 3D print circuit boards with bespoke software. Alas, we are constrained by physics. At the moment.

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> Yeah, this is quite thought provoking. If computer code written by LLMs is a commodity, what new businesses does that enable? What can we do cheaply we couldn't do before?

The model owner can just withhold access and build all the businesses themselves.

Financial capital used to need labor capital. It doesn't anymore.

We're entering into scary territory. I would feel much better if this were all open source, but of course it isn't.

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I have never been in an organization where everyone was sitting around, wondering what to do next. If the economy was actually as good as certain government officials claimed to be, we would be hiring people left and right to be able to do three times as much work, not firing.
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That's the thing, profits and equities are at all time highs, but these companies have laid off 400k SWEs in the last 16 months in the US, which should tell you what their plans are for this technology and augmenting their businesses.
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The last 16 months of layoffs are almost certainly not because of LLMs. All the cheap money went away, and suddenly tech companies have to be profitable. That means a lot of them are shedding anything not nailed down to make their quarter look better.
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> Its also worth noting that if you can create a business with an LLM, so can everyone else. And sadly everyone has the same ideas

Yeah, people are going to have to come to terms with the "idea" equivalent of "there are no unique experiences". We're already seeing the bulk move toward the meta SaaS (Shovels as a Service).

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So like....every business having electricity? I am not a economist so would love someone smarter than me explain how this is any different than the advent of electricity and how that affected labor.
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The difference is that electricity wasn't being controlled by oligarchs that want to shape society so they become more rich while pillaging the planet and hurting/killing real human beings.

I'd be more trusting of LLM companies if they were all workplace democracies, not really a big fan of the centrally planned monarchies that seem to be most US corporations.

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Heard of Carnegie? He controlled coal when it was the main fuel used for heating and electricity.
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A reference to one of the hall of fame Robber Barons does seem pretty apt right now..
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At least they built libraries, cultural centers and the occasional university.
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Its main distinction from previous forms of automation is its ability to apply reasoning to processes and its potential to operate almost entirely without supervision, and also to be retasked with trivial effort. Conventional automation requires huge investments in a very specific process. Widespread automation will allow highly automated organizations to pivot or repurpose overnight.
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Control over the fuels that create electricity has defined global politics, and global conflict, for generations. Oligarchs built an entire global order backed up by the largest and most powerful military in human history to control those resource flows, and have sacrificed entire ecosystems and ways of life to gain or maintain access.

So in that sense, yes, it’s the same

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While I’m on your side electricity was (is?) controlled by oligarchs whose only goal was to become richer. It’s the same type of people that now build AI companies
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I mean your description sounds a lot like the early history of large industrialization of electricity. Lots of questionable safety and labor practices, proprietary systems, misinformation, doing absolutely terrible things to the environment to fuel this demand, massive monopolies, etc.
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> They can get rid of 1/3-2/3s of their labor and make the same amount of money, why wouldn't they.

Competition may encourage companies to keep their labor. For example, in the video game industry, if the competitors of a company start shipping their games to all consoles at once, the company might want to do the same. Or if independent studios start shipping triple A games, a big studio may want to keep their labor to create quintuple A games.

On the other hand, even in an optimistic scenario where labor is still required, the skills required for the jobs might change. And since the AI tools are not mature yet, it is difficult to know which new skills will be useful in ten years from now, and it is even more difficult to start training for those new skills now.

With the help of AI tools, what would a quintuple A game look like? Maybe once we see some companies shipping quintuple A games that have commercial success, we might have some ideas on what new skills could be useful in the video game industry for example.

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Yeah but there’s no reason to assume this is even a possibility. SW Companies that are making more money than ever are slashing their workforces. Those garbage Coke and McDonald’s commercials clearly show big industry is trying to normalize bad quality rather than elevate their output. In theory, cheap overseas tweening shops should have allowed the midcentury American cartoon industry to make incredible quality at the same price, but instead, there was a race straight to the bottom. I’d love to have even a shred of hope that the future you describe is possible but I see zero empirical evidence that anyone is even considering it.
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> They can get rid of 1/3-2/3s of their labor and make the same amount of money, why wouldn't they.

Because companies want to make MORE money.

Your hypothetical company is now competing with another company who didn’t opposite, and now they get to market faster, fix bugs faster, add feature faster, and responding to changes in the industry faster. Which results in them making more, while your employ less company is just status quo.

Also. With regards to oil, the consumption of oil increases as it became cheaper. With AI we now have a chance to do projects that simply would have cost way too much to do 10 years ago.

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> Which results in them making more

Not necessarily.

You are assuming that the people can consume whatever is put in front of them. Markets get saturated fast. The "changes in the industry" mean nothing.

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A) People are so used to infinite growth that it’s hard to imagine a market where that doesn’t exist. The industry can have enough developers and there’s a good chance we’re going to crash right the fuck into that pretty quickly. America’s industrial labor pool seemed like it provided an ever-expanding supply of jobs right up until it didn’t. Then, in the 80s, it started going backwards preeeetttty dramatically.

B) No amount of money will make people buy something that doesn’t add value to or enrich their lives. You still need ideas, for things in markets that have room for those ideas. This is where product design comes in. Despite what many developers think, there are many kinds of designers in this industry and most of them are not the software equivalent of interior decorators. Designing good products is hard, and image generators don’t make that easier.

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The price of oil at the price of water (ecology apart) should be a good thing.

Automation should be, obviously, a good thing, because more is produced with less labor. What it says of ourselves and our politics that so many people (me included) are afraid of it?

In a sane world, we would realize that, in a post-work world, the owner of the robots have all the power, so the robots should be owned in common. The solution is political.

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What do we “need” more of? Here in France we need more doctors, more nurseries, more teachers… I don’t see AI helping much there in short to middle term (with teachers all research points to AI making it massively worse even)

Globally I think we need better access to quality nutrition and more affordable medicine. Generally cheaper energy.

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Isn’t the end game that all the displaced SWEs give up their cushy, flexible job and get retrained as nurses?
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Throughout history Empires have bet their entire futures on the predictions of seers, magicians and done so with enthusiasm. When political leaders think their court magicians can give them an edge, they'll throw the baby out with the bathwater to take advantage of it. It seems to me that the Machine Learning engineers and AI companies are the court magicians of our time.

I certainly don't have much faith in the current political structures, they're uneducated on most subjects they're in charge of and taking the magicians at their word, the magicians have just gotten smarter and don't call it magic anymore.

I would actually call it magic though, just actually real. Imagine explaining to political strategists from 100 years ago, the ability to influence politicians remotely, while they sit in a room by themselves a la dictating what target politicians see on their phones and feed them content to steer them in a certain directions.. Its almost like a synthetic remote viewing.. And if that doesn't work, you also have buckets of cash :|

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While I agree, I am not hopeful. The incentive alignment has us careening towards Elysium rather than Star Trek.
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Retail water[1] costs $881/bbl which is 13x the price of Brent crude.

[1] https://www.walmart.com/ip/Aquafina-Purified-Drinking-Water-...

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What a good faith reply. If you sincerely believe this, that's a good insight into how dumb the masses are. Although I would expect a higher quality of reply on HN.

You found the most expensive 8pck of water on Walmart. Anyone can put a listing on Walmart, its the same model as Amazon. There's also a listing right below for bottles twice the size, and a 32 pack for a dollar less.

It cost $0.001 per gallon out of your tap, and you know this..

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I'm in South Australia, the driest state on the driest continent, we have a backup desalination plant and water security is common on the political agenda - water is probably as expensive here than most places in the world

"The 2025-26 water use price for commercial customers is now $3.365/kL (or $0.003365 per litre)"

https://www.sawater.com.au/my-account/water-and-sewerage-pri...

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Water just comes out of a tap?

My household water comes from a 500 ft well on my property requiring a submersible pump costing $5000 that gets replaced ever 10-15 years or so with a rig and service that cost another 10k. Call it $1000/year... but it also requires a giant water softener, in my case a commercial one that amortizes out to $1000/year, and monthly expenditure of $70 for salt (admittedly I have exceptionally hard water).

And of course, I, and your municipality too, don't (usually) pay any royalties to "owners" of water that we extract.

Water is, rightly, expensive, and not even expensive enough.

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You have a great source of water, which unfortunately for you cost you more money than the average, but because everyone else also has water that precious resource of yours isn't really worth anything if you were to try and go sell it. It makes sense why you'd want it to be more expensive, and that dangerous attitude can also be extrapolated to AI compute access. I think there's going to be a lot of people that won't want everyone to have plentiful access to the highest qualities of LLMs for next to nothing for this reason.

If everyone has easy access to the same powerful LLMs that would just drive down the value you can contribute to the economy to next to nothing. For this reason I don't even think powerful and efficient open source models, which is usually the next counter argument people make, are necessarily a good thing. It strips people of the opportunity for social mobility through meritocratic systems. Just like how your water well isn't going to make your rich or allow you to climb a social ladder, because everyone already has water.

I think the technology of LLMs/AI is probably a bad thing for society in general. Even a full post scarcity AGI world where machines do everything for us ,I don't even know if that's all that good outside of maybe some beneficial medical advances, but can't we get those advances without making everyone's existence obsolete?

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I agree water should probably be priced more in general, and it's certainly more expensive in some places than others, but neither of your examples is particularly representative of the sourcing relevant for data centers (scale and potability being different, for starters).
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Yeah, but a Stratocaster guitar is available to everybody too, but not everybody’s an Eric Clapton
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I can buy the CD From the Cradle for pennies, but it would cost me hundreds of dollars to see Eric Clapton live
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