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On the one hand, that's the point of the article. That it ceases to be a useful diagnostic indicator.

On the other hand, if there are 100 places in the shoulder where you can have an abnormality, and most people have just one or a couple but the other 98-99 are normal, then each one individually really is abnormal.

So it's complicated, and then it becomes important to figure out which abnormalities are medically relevant, in which combinations, etc.

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That's actually what the article points out. But I do think the language of normal vs abnormal obfuscates some of the intent. It's a 'deviation from healthy baseline' that they're talking about, and there are multiple such deviations in the grouped 'anomalies'.

From the article:

The language in particular should change given that “abnormalities” are ubiquitous—thus normal—and shouldn’t be described in terms that indicate a need for repair, like “tear.”

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I went to a doctor for something unrelated and ended up getting an MRI that happened to show my upper spine. The neurologist read it and determined that I have a Chiari I malformation[0]. I have no symptoms from this whatsoever. I never have. It's unlikely that I ever will. If it weren't for the MRI, I'd never have known.

Doctors use to think that the degree of it that I have meant I'd have problems with it. After all, people who came in with the symptoms and then had an MRI or CT scan tended to show that level of herniation. Thus, it was assumed, that level of herniation was considered a diagnostic indicator. And then MRIs became cheaper and more accessible, and patients had them for all sorts of other reasons — like I did. Doctors discovered that the degree of "malformation" I have is very common among asymptomatic adults. In fact, you're many times more likely to be perfect fine with it than to experience symptoms.

Well, huh. That doesn't sound like much of a malformation anymore. Or at least, by itself it doesn't mean anything, other than that perhaps you're more likely to have problems than otherwise. On its own? It's more of a normal variation.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiari_malformation

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99% of adults have abnormal faces, they all look different!
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Ok, in that case it's safe to say that the normal is highly variant but generally follows a pattern. People generally have a nose in the center of their face so that'd be normal, but one on the forehead would be abnormal unless everyone suddenly also had forehead noses
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Relevant history from the US Airforce in the 1940s when they tried to build a cockpit for the average pilot and failed

I find this an interesting take on the story

https://polkas.github.io/posts/cursedim/

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This is also a good argument why "opinionated" designs like from Apple are a bad idea. The average user does not exist. Stop trying to turn us into one!
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I have used an iPhone for 8 years and a macbook for 2 years. Every year the experience gets worse, like on schedule. This theory might explain what is happening!
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Same with Windows; that's why I switched to Linux.
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That’s different. Deciding you’re building a tool for a specific use-case is not related to “average users”.

Tool companies manufacture claw hammers despite some people wanting a nail gun. You don’t try to make a thing flexible enough to be both a nail gun and a hammer.

I’m a power user and I do all of my customization on my Linux desktop/laptop. I use an iPhone specifically because it’s locked down and don’t want a keyboard that has gone through no code review stealing all of my banking credentials.

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I would hate to be one of the ~80 million people in the world who have identical faces
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Except that one guy.
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Everyone is abnormal compared to yourself.
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Dude I know exactly who you're talking about, that guy without a unique face! Weird as hell that he's the only one...
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Right, it's clearly aging related deterioration. It's like saying facial wrinkles are an abnormality.
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I think the conclusion they're eluding to in the article is that: "if MRI says 99% of people have abnormalities, MRI is not trustworthy".
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Not "MRI is not trustworthy" but "abnormalities are not harmful". ("Allude", by the way; to "elude" is to escape.)
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oof, thanks for the grammar fix!
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Yes in one sense, but it also points to the insufficency of "normalness". See also: The Average Soldier.
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There’s a famous case study in design about the Average Pilot - they were making airplanes than nobody could fly well because nobody was average enough in all physical dimensions to be comfortable in the aircraft. They had to design for ranges that the equipment could adjust through.

Even then when I was a kid I knew a guy who wanted to join the air force and he had a growth spurt that made him too tall.

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More of the history of "avenge pilots" here: https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/on-average/
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> Daniels realized that none of the pilots he measured was average on all ten dimensions. Not a single one. When he looked at just three dimensions, less than five percent were average. Daniels realized that by designing something for an average pilot, it was literally designed to fit nobody.
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only if the abnormality is in the same spot
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"1% of adults over 40 have abnormally normal shoulders"

But seriously, the article addressed that

> The authors argue that the findings suggest clinicians should rethink MRI findings, changing not just how they’re used, but also how they’re explained to patients. The language in particular should change given that “abnormalities” are ubiquitous—thus normal—and shouldn’t be described in terms that indicate a need for repair, like “tear.”

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no it doesn’t. not at all. “abnormality” is a measure vs. the median… what else could “abnormal” possibly even mean? how could anyone ever be abnormal in any way otherwise, given the number of possible avenues of abnormality in the universe? this logic can only even “play ball” with a singular “is this person abnormal or not?” boolean… if there existed even two axes of abnormality then by your folksy definition it cannot actually exist. QED.
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Abnominal (not abdominal)
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If you ignore the time dimension, sure.

But if 99% of adults today have an abnormality that 99% of adults historically didn't, it's abnormal.

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It's a poor term but it's talking about a healthy baseline for any human as far as I'm aware. It's not adjusted for expected deterioration due to age. 100% of organs eventually fail if given enough time, but it's still fine to call the resulting failed organ a defect.

Presumably, some of this is just it's pretty damn inevitable you're going to accumulate at least some level of detectable injury that doesn't completely heal over the course of 40 years. I needed shoulder reconstruction because I fell off a skateboard trying to bomb a hill a year and a half ago and it's healed to the point there isn't any functional impairment, but given there's metal in there now, it's obviously going to look abnormal on an image. There's just an impedance mismatch here between what imaging finds and what people actually care about. Any detectable deviation from expected tissue configuration is going to show up and get reported, but there is no reason for a patient to give a shit. Functional impairment and/or pain is what they care about, though those are both also universal if you live long enough. No 90 year-old walks without a limp but it's still completely fair to call a limp an "abnormal" gait.

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Not if they are all different and produce negative effects
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Dunno man. When enough people overweight, 1-2 alcoholic drink become healthy (alcohol is a blood thinner): this happened, but as we know now it's not true.
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Alcohol also reduces awareness of heart attacks.

https://theonion.com/report-aspirin-taken-daily-with-bottle-...

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> alcohol is a blood thinner

Source?

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Alcohol reduces clotting factors in the blood. This is known.

Doctors mostly tell you not to drink because it’ll fuck with the anesthesia math and bad anesthesia doses can kill you just as dead as a surgical mistake and probably moreso. But it’ll also make you bleed more.

If you need courage to show up to surgery they’ll give you a prescription for a single dose of a benzo. Which is better than liquid courage anyway.

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A patient being drunk wouldn’t make it any harder for me to anaesthetise them. But if they’re drunk they wouldn’t legally be able to confirm they consent to the anaesthetic immediately prior.
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Given the multiplicative effect of sedatives and depressants, do you have to factor in inebriation, for instance for a DUI in the ER? Or are the safety margins sufficient?
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Can you not consent to have something done to you while drunk, while you're sober beforehand? I mean you can sign beforehand to have surgery performed while you're knocked out, that's a bit more inebriated than most sorts of drunk.
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if they all have the same abnormality yeah but if they all have different abnormalities then they're still abnormalities.
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