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The doubling cube works well in Backgammon because it is a rare example of a popular game with randomness, without hidden information (every information set contains exactly one node of the decision tree, if you want to get extremely technical,) and, critically, with "different endings" (normal win, gammon, backgammon.) Doubling decisions are especially interesting because while they're always objective (it could never be the case that perfect players disagree on the correct move, that requires nontrivial information sets,) it could be the case that:

- it's correct for a player to double and for the other to accept;

- it's correct for a player to double and for the other not to accept;

- the position is "too good to double," because the equity from the probability of a double or triple game exceeds the advantage you'd get from a double;

- all of the above being influenced by the match score, e.g. if I'm 3 points away from winning and you're 5 points away from winning, I could make different decisions than if it were the opposite.

Chess has none of them, the doubling cube would be exclusively a psychological power play, something like "it's theoretically drawn but I don't think you can defend it," which is not a great game dynamic.

In general, transplanting the doubling mechanic without a similarly rich context doesn't tend to work well.

by fernandopj4 hours ago|

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I'd like to point out that some online chess tournaments, mostly using rapid and bullet times, have a "berserk" option pre-start, where the player taking it halves their allotted time bank, for double the winning points.

It's not a bluff, since information is still 100% open to both players, but it changes dynamic a lot.

by jmount10 hours ago|

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This is an important point. Thank you.

Games like backgammon (that have betting and the doubling cube to continue), Go (which is calculated in stones), and bridge (again having points) have more natural intermediate scoring systems than chess.

In my opinion the "winner takes all" aspect of chess is similar to what makes analyzing voting systems difficult. In a non game context: Aspnes, Beigel, Furst, and Rudich had some amazing work on how all or nothing calculation really changes things: https://www.cs.yale.edu/homes/aspnes/papers/stoc91voting.pdf .

by ramses09 hours ago|

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For a while I really dug in to multiple player (and teams-of-players) ELO calculations. I got into an argument with my friend about whether second place was any better than last place... specifically in poker, but applicable to multiple games (imagine chinese checkers [race to finish], or carcassonne/ticket-to-ride [semi-hidden scoring until the end]).

His POV was that "if you don't win, you lose" and my POV was "second place is better than last place". His response was: "if I play poker to get first place it's wildly different than playing for second or third place [and I may end up in last place wildly more often due to risk % or bad beats]"

I've been more used to "climbing" type performance games (ie: last place => mid-field => second place => first place) and in my gut I wanted my ELO to reflect that (top-half players are better than bottom-half players), however his very valid point was that different games have different payout matrices (eg: poker is often "top-3 payout", and first may be 10x second or third).

I think in my mind I've settled on EV-payout for multiplayer games should match the "game payout", and that maybe my gut is telling me the difference between "Casual ELO" (aka: top-half > bottom-half), and "Competitive ELO" (aka: only the winner gets paid).

by hyperpape10 hours ago|

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Go is also winner take all. It's psychologically satisfying to have a big win, in the same way that it's psychologically satisfying to achieve a brilliant checkmate, but in any ordinary game or tournament (outside of certain gambling setups), a win by 1/2 point is the same as a win by 20+ points.

by aidenn07 hours ago|

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Yes and no. One could say this of any game with points where the margin of victory doesn't affect long-term outcomes (e.g. most ball games).

A win by 1/2 point or 20 points it suggests a very different relative skill between the two players. Similarly the custom of the stronger player playing white without komi suggests that the point differential matters.

by kuboble5 hours ago|

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Not necessarily. In go you often calculate the score and come up with a conclusion that by playing proper moves you will lose by a small margin.

So instead you launch a desperate maneuver in a hope to either turn the game around or lose by 30 points.

by aidenn01 hours ago|

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I see what you're saying; this is true for any game scored win/loss. Even gridiron football if you're down by 4 points with time almost out you won't kick a field goal (worth 3 points).