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Cisco did this in 1999. That's how my smallish apartment building in Sweden ended up with a kick-ass Cisco 10 Gbps switch in its basement a year later - when these cost real money.

I think the HOA still only pays like $10/month/apartment for an entry level that's now defined as 250/250 Mbit/s. Someone must have been unusually savvy with the contracts.

https://newsroom.cisco.com/c/r/newsroom/en/us/a/y1999/m11/ci...

Cisco survived but it took them until late last year to recover their 1999 stock value (that's 26 years).

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I think you’re just describing how it’s circular.

It’s like Toys R Us not having enough money to pay Mattel for Barbie dolls and telling Mattel they can have partial ownership of the company if they just supply them with some more toys.

But the problem is that Toys R Us is spending $15, 20, or maybe even $50 (who knows?) to sell a $10 toy.

Toys R Us continues selling toys faster and faster despite a lack of profit, making Mattel even more dependent on Toys R Us as a customer. It blows up the bubble where a more natural course of action would be for Toys R Us to go bankrupt or scale back ambitions earlier.

Because it’s circular like this, it lends toward bigger crashing and burning. If OpenAI fails, all these investors that are deeply integrated into their supply chains lose both their investment and customer.

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> But the problem is that Toys R Us is spending $15, 20, or maybe even $50 (who knows?) to sell a $10 toy.

It's like how Uber and Airbnb in the early days were burning loads of cash to build market share. People went to these services because they were cheaper. Then they would increase prices once they had a comfortable position.

OpenAI is also in a rapidly transforming field where there are a lot of cost reductions happening, efficiency gains etc. Compared to say Uber which didn't provide a lot of efficiency gains.

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OK, so absolutely good faith here what is the end game?

Obviously, there’s a scenario of super power AI and then it’s a matter of continuing course. Electricity and silicon.

What if you are right, and the scaling doesn’t work. It is too much power, time, hardware to improve… does openAI fold?

Do they just actual use the models they have?

Does everyone just decide that AI didn’t work and go back 5 years like it didn’t happen?

Does the price change so that they have to be profitable making AI services expensive and rare instead of today where they are everywhere pointlessly?

Or does this insane valuation only make sense with information you don’t have like insider scaling or efficiency news?

Does China’s strategy of undercutting US value of models pay off bigly?

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Why so extreme, most likely just AI winter for a while, then when tech and societies has caught up, the advancements begins again.

It is not like we threw away the dotcom advances, they were just put on hold for a while..

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The people running these companies have a perverse incentive to keep the ball rolling as long as possible so that they can extricate as much personal wealth and influence as possible. Maybe AGI makes all the problems go away. But, failing that, they get out relatively scot-free when it all collapses. And they don't owe anything to the public. And no one is going to bring them up on fraud charges or any other kind of criminal charges. So, while the world is burning around them (including their former companies), they have the money and connections to acquire property and businesses that are actually productive. It's the Russian oligarch playbook. They're the kings of a struggling society on the brink of failure, but they heard "kings" and said, "Let's go."
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I generally agree with the sentiment, but it's not the russian oligarch playbook. The playbook is some kind of a variation of buying out a productive asset in a legacy industry under it's market price (because everything is on fire already), then using political or monopoly power to funnel (tax) money through it and into your pockets (the asset has to function, but doesn't have to provide a good quality of service due to not allocating proper maintenance). Sovereign AI fund and Microsoft are very close to that setup. If NYC subway would be sold to certain Elon and he will then jack up the prices and have the city hall to subsidize it still, but keep the quality of service the same, that would be more or less it.

The other variation goes in reverse -- using the legacy asset and it's capture labor force to output some kind of a commodity that is sold below market price to a controlled company in a different jurisdiction, where it's resold at small discount of a market price. The company still has to function here too.

Bonus points for not even owning the asset in question, but having effective control over it through the corrupt management, this way the government still pays the bills to keep it running at loss.

What you are describing is actually very western thing, because it assumes you can exchange the asset into cash directly and then buy something with that liquidity, which assumes solid property rights. I'm not even talking about OpenAI being an actual tech company that just wasn't there before. It's not how oligarchy works in the places.

Since the US is slowly moving in a direction of oligarchy, I think the actual reference will be helpful.

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Nope wrong framing.

Nvidia is investing assets into OAI - it has to. Because OAI needs to become successful for Nvidia's story in the long-term to play out, to justify its current stock price.

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You say calling it circular is wrong framing and the immediately proceeded to describe a circle.
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Nvidia just needs the winner to be an Nvidia customer. OpenAI is replacable.
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If OpenAI folded, you’d have the one LLM company that consumers know suddenly gone. Which seems like the opposite of an AI success story.

People will start looking at valuations more carefully. Investors will get jittery. Spending on GPUs will drop, as will NVidia’s stock price.

I’m not sure that NVidia views OpenAI as replaceable.

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If OAI folded, there would also be a sudden tsunami of recent Nvidia hardware on the used market.
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Too many bozos on here (you arent one of them)
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Customers comparable to openai are trending towards designing and/or using their own silicon, though.
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Too many bozos on here (you arent one of them)
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