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> The reality is, most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve

The "reality" is that propaganda heavily encourages you to ignore the government successes and only focus on the failures. I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine who benefits from that.

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> "government successes"

Please, name for me one product or service that the US government has created, that people willingly buy, that has made your life tangibly better.

I can list a billion made by businesses.

Please, go for it. Just one.

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USPS

Medicaid

The National Park System

I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but

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> I know that the next step is you explaining why these don’t count, or saying “wow only 3” or whatever, but

Oh, there's more: Medicare, Social Security, the highway system.

The whole food/medicine regulatory system is also a big one, and it's the reason a lot of US (and European) products like baby formula are imported into China, because they can be more trusted.

My bet is the GP's going to weasel out using his "that people willingly buy" language. The flawed assumption there is the government should be conceptualized as just another company selling in the market, when the government's actual role is very different.

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As with anything, they are all things that could be done better by a company.

Airlines are a great example of this. They have changed very little in the last 30 years (again, thanks to all the government regulation and red tape).

Smartphones, TVs, (and literally anything else not in the hands of the government) has also seen rapid improvements.

Anything the government handles is always rife with overspending, inefficiency, and corruption.

A company must maintain profitability to stay alive.

The government on the other hand, is $38 TRILLION dollars in the red.

Yes, the things that "people willingly buy" are the literal engine that makes all of this possible. It is not the reverse.

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> As with anything, they are all things that could be done better by a company. No

> Airlines are a great example of this. They have changed very little in the last 30 years (again, thanks to all the government regulation and red tape).

And thanks to regulations, we have less airline accidents than ever. Private companies are more than willing to "externalise" any accidents from cutting costs otherwise.

> Smartphones, TVs, (and literally anything else not in the hands of the government) has also seen rapid improvements.

So does government funded medical research, which improves the quality of life of people corporations deem "unprofitable".

> Anything the government handles is always rife with overspending, inefficiency, and corruption.

Because large corporations and rich donors lobby them to do so.

> A company must maintain profitability to stay alive.

So does a government, debt only lasts as long as the lender believes in your ability to pay it back.

> The government on the other hand, is $38 TRILLION dollars in the red.

And which of the Mag7 are not in debt? I remind you that if you wish to compare the USA to companies, they are literally an entity of over 300,000 people. No company employs that many people.

> Yes, the things that "people willingly buy" are the literal engine that makes all of this possible. It is not the reverse.

No, government enforced order is what allowed the engine to exist to begin with. No one would innovate if their IP could not be protected, and we would regress back into cartels if the government could not enforce private property.

The prosperity of the modern world is build upon a foundation of solid governance.

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Remember how great the privately owned meat packing plants were at making sure the food was safe?

> Anything the government handles is always rife with overspending, inefficiency, and corruption.

Boy will you be surprised when you get a job.

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Oh yeah. I feel sooooo good dealing with Comcast. At this point in life, I spent more time on the phone with Comcast support than I ever spent time in various DMV offices.

> A company must maintain profitability to stay alive.

Yeah. And once it becomes a monopoly (like Comcast), it can just keep raising prices.

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Comcast has a monopoly granted to it by the government.
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Not here. It's a natural monopoly, just like sewer lines or electric transmission.

Where I live now, I paid $50k to get a private fiber optics line just not to deal with Comcast anymore. There were no other options. We _might_ get AT&T fiber, eventually.

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Have you ever called the DMV? In my state it's worse than Comcast. 45min wait time when the lines open in the morning, only increasing from there.

I "owe" Comcast $200. They say I didn't cancel at an old apartment. I say I did. I have the email. They insist. They've sent me a letter once a year for a decade. About 2yr in it went to collections. They're still trying.

Imagine the consequences if I did that with government.

Say nothing of the fact that if I tried to pay it, Comcast would be able to take my money no problem. The government would take a check, ACH or charge me $5 to use a buggy 3rd party CC processing service.

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I have called the dmv. They said enter a number and we'll call you back later, which they did. It wasn't fast but it was fairly efficient.

I've had the irs write me a letter saying I owed them money. They were correct and I paid them in a couple of months. It wasn't very hard.

I don't enjoy paying taxes but I do very much enjoy the things they buy.

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Well, ask your state to fix the issue. Perhaps elect better politicians? The states where I lived all have online booking.

And their websites are well-designed and functional. There are customer support emails and phone numbers.

> Say nothing of the fact that if I tried to pay it, Comcast would be able to take my money no problem.

About that... A couple of years ago I got locked out of AT&T because I forgot to update my credit card. And I couldn't log in because it required a (you guessed it) one-time SMS password. Their "pay your bill" needed a bill number, for which I needed to log into their website.

Their fix? Visit the store.

> Imagine the consequences if I did that with government.

A couple of years ago I accidentally overpaid the IRS (I paid the capital gains tax twice, as it was already deducted during the sale by the broker) to the tune of $10k. A year later, they sent a letter asking me for clarifications. I called them, and they sent me a refund check.

> The government would take a check, ACH or charge me $5 to use a buggy 3rd party CC processing service.

And what's wrong with a check or ACH?

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> My bet is the GP's going to weasel out using his "that people willingly buy" language

Well, they aren't willingly buying it. They are funded with taxes.

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People can choose not to use a lot of those things.
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Right, but they cannot choose to not buy them.
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USPS - is self-funded, though it is operating at a loss. It also is a legal monopoly, meaning competitors for first class mail are illegal.

Medicaid - funded by the government, meaning people are not willingly paying for it

The National Park System - funded by the government, meaning people are not willingly paying for it

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Every single thing you just mentioned is insolvent.
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Like, even if that was true, which super blatantly they are not, they are not intended to make a profit, they are intended to accomplish a goal.
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The proto-Internet. GPS. Nuclear energy. MRIs. Fracking. The Human Genome Project. Fiber optics. Optical data storage. Jet engines. Heck, the entire space industry. Lithium ion batteries. Radar. Night vision technology. Modern lower limb prosthetics. Just off the top of my head
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Jet engines - Frank Whipple (England) and Franz Ohain (Germany) invented them. In both cases the governments were not interested in them until flying jet aircraft were demonstrated. Lockheed was ordered by the government to abandon their jet engine project and focus on piston engines instead (which resulted in the US having to get started on jet aircraft by buying British machines).

Human genome - J. Venter was the first to sequence the human genome, privately funded.

the entire space industry - Liquid fuel rockets were pioneered by Goddard, through private funding.

Radar - originated from late 19th-century experiments on radio wave reflection, pioneered by Heinrich Hertz in 1886. While Christian Hülsmeyer patented a "telemobiloscope" for ship detection in 1904

The proto-Internet - Pioneered by Samuel Morse, see "The Victorian Internet" by Tom Standage. Privately funded.

Optical data storage - Invented by D Gregg, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Paul_Gregg, at a private company.

Nuclear energy - a very long list of contributors. See "The Making of the Atomic Bomb".

And so on.

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Whittle (Whipple is a painter) "invented" the jet engine while serving in the RAF, so technically not privately funded at the point of invention. There was private funding used later to create prototype engines.

Quite a stretch to say the Atomic Bomb was privately funded!!!

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I see Massachusetts as sort of the non-insane liberal counterpoint to California.

Things work here and nobody seems to be passing the "oops my unintended side effects and clueless regulations messed things up horribly." Or, if they do, it is at something like 1/10th the level.

We didn't start warning label spam everywhere. We don't have weird propositions that are causing run-away housing prices. There aren't bar codes on our 3d printers, or cookie banner requirements on every website. Well, ok we do, but that nonsense all came in from other places.

We did pass laws to lower PFAS/PFOAS. That seems reasonable. Government can work.

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> We don't have weird propositions that causing run-away housing prices.

Most of those are a reaction rather than the cause. People want to move to california, it creates a different set of problems for california vs Massachusetts

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I like MA, but you realize the challenges are vastly different, right?

The sheer size, economic volume and cultural diversity of CA presents a pretty unique set of issues.

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I mean, sure, but all those things I named don't seem to be scale induced? They seem to all stem from clueless regulation, which is as simple as not not signing silly laws? I'm missing where scale plays into the items I mentioned.
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MA legislature is too busy enriching themselves with back room dealing to f the state up too much.

I wish I was joking. They get audited yet? Pretty sure that was a ballot measure that passed by a huge margin years back and last I checked they were stalling...

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most government "solutions" cause more problems than they solve

Zero basis in fact. We’re in the wealthiest nation on the planet. Most of us live better than any previous generation. To claim all that success is completely in spite of government is ridiculous.

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Are you under the impression that the government created all that wealth?
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Without nukes to keep away the Soviets I wouldn’t be wealthy
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Not at all. But it enabled it. Or at worst didn’t prevent it.
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It's true, and yet there are real market failures that even a very ineffective government can improve on dramatically, like innovation & research output via basic science.
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