upvote

points

by nixon_why6912 hours ago |
comments
upvoteby seanmcdirmid11 hours ago|
next
[-]
India, Russia, Philippines, Vietnam (south China sea island taking), Russia (their last border skirmish was in the 90s), itself (PLA soldiers were used and killed people in TS 1989).
reply
upvoteby nixon_why6911 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
(EDIT in lieu of multiple replies - a random border fuckup is not an invasion in my book)

And the body count from all of those tiny border skirmishes together? Its less than these 24 hours in Iran, right?

reply
upvoteby toomanyrichies10 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
You asked for names of countries. That was provided. What you're doing here is called moving the goalposts.
reply
upvoteby seanmcdirmid3 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
next
[-]
Are you seriously asking us for the PLA accrued body count in the last 40 years? You can just ask that directly, you won’t like the answer though.
reply
upvoteby seanmcdirmid11 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
next
[-]
If you include TS 1989 then the body count is much higher than that last 24 hours in Iran.
reply
upvoteby OKRainbowKid11 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
Where are you gonna move the goalposts to next?
reply
upvoteby nixon_why6910 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
A fuckup at the border is not an "attack/invasion". If China/Russia/India attacked each other for real, it would not look like a fuckup.

I'm being consistent with my goalposts.

reply
upvoteby iepathos11 hours ago|
prev|
next
[-]
The idea that China hasn't 'attacked anyone' in 40 years is factually incorrect. In 1988, they engaged in a deadly naval skirmish with Vietnam over the Johnson South Reef. More recently, the PLA engaged in fatal border clashes with India in the Galwan Valley (2020). On top of direct skirmishes, they have engaged in constant gray-zone aggression: violently ramming Philippine and Vietnamese vessels in the South China Sea, firing water cannons at supply ships, and surrounding Taiwan with live-fire military blockades. That doesn't even touch on the internal human rights abuses against the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. Multiple international bodies and governments have recognized what they are doing to Uyghurs since 2014 as genocide. Finally, it's hard to ignore their devastating handling of COVID-19. The active suppression of information, punishment of early whistleblowers, and refusal to cooperate with international investigations resulted in unprecedented worldwide damage, amounting to an act of gross global endangerment.
reply
upvoteby JumpCrisscross12 hours ago|
prev|
[-]
> Name one country China has attacked/invaded in the last 40 years

India [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%...

reply
upvoteby nixon_why6912 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
I said "attacked/invaded", not "had some fistfights at the border". Could we set the standard at "at least one piece of military equipment fired on people"?

Bear in mind that we're comparing this to the USA and Israel's military record over the last 40 years.

reply
upvoteby JumpCrisscross11 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
> I said "attacked/invaded", not "had some fistfights at the border"

Disputed border region. Used military force to intervene. That's an attack.

> Could we set the standard at "at least one piece of military equipment fired on people"?

Why not tens of soldiers killed? (And on what planet do "the 4th (Highland) Motorised Infantry and 6th (Highland) Mechanised Infantry Divisions" of the PLA not contain military equipment?)

> we're comparing this to the USA and Israel's military record over the last 40 years

No, you are. The list I stated was China, Russia and America. You're trying to argue that China upholds the rules-based international order around respecting sovereign borders. That would be news in Taipei.

reply
upvoteby nixon_why6911 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
I'm arguing that China has, generously, inflicted maybe 1k military casualties in the last 40 years if we round everything all the way up.

You're arguing that China is the real bad guy while USA/Israel are doing 10x that in the current 24 hours.

reply
upvoteby JumpCrisscross11 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
> I'm arguing that China has, generously, a 3-4 figure body count in the last 40 years

If we ignore proxy wars, sure.

And you're still arguing a straw man. Nobody in this thread ever said that China was as warlike as Russia and America (and Israel and Iran). Just that it has embraced the same geopolitical philosphy and standard.

reply
upvoteby Tadpole918112 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
> Small scale melee combat at the border.

> Casualties: 35 combatants killed

Uh-huh.

So, half of the number of people we killed in our Venezuela attack. Of which half were innocent civilians.

Hey, could you really quick remind me how many civilians the US killed in Afghanistan? Something like 500,000 right?

Not here to say China is a good guy by any means, but your example was so bad I laughed out loud.

reply
upvoteby JumpCrisscross11 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
> your example

The examples I gave were Tibet and Taiwan. I was asked to give "one country China has attacked/invaded in the last 40 years," a timeline chosen to exlude the Sino-Vietnamese war [1] and encompass the wake of the Soviet Union's collapse. I did, prioritizing directness, recency and death toll.

I'm not saying China is as militarily forward as Russia or America (or Israel or Iran). I'm saying that the double standard isn't a double standard, it's one Xi explicilty embraces with his rhetoric around Taiwan.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

reply