upvote
I'm always astounded by the tendency to bet it all on core competencies and wind down every other effort that's profitable but not profitable _enough _ As if times don't change, innovation never happens, and your accessory plays of today are never the overtaking market of tomorrow.
reply
It’s basically management 101. But I’ve gone through that phase and come out the other end believing that outsourcing any of the functions that aren’t commodified enough to switch at a moment’s notice is a terrible idea.
reply
That's been obvious for years. It feels like they're extracting whatever remaining money they can get from the home PC market while it lasts but won't much miss it when it's gone.

I'm surprised they haven't given up on xbox and games but perhaps there's enough money there to keep it going.

reply
Their new appointment of leader for their Xbox group suggests that they intend to wind down that business unit in time. The founder of the Xbox team has commented that he believes it’s the beginning of the end for Xbox, for the exact reasons of this thread.
reply
Which is odd because the major reason Xbox is petering out is because it's been completely mismanaged. Sony and Nintendo are still doing just fine. Nintendo even had a dodgy console that no one bought within relatively recent memory. Xbox messed up with the One and then have just failed to get back on track. It's not like the industry is dying.
reply
> home PC market while it lasts

Tinfoil hat thought: Microsoft only focuses on B2B and not consumer market, because they make it so that consumers can only rent from Microsoft and other businesses, not actually own anything. That way, Microsoft can keep jacking up prices as they see fit.

reply
If Microsoft wanted to be monopolistic, and it wouldn't be the first time, then why are they abandoning their strongest exclusives (Windows, Office) and instead enter a more competitive market, where Google, Amazon, etc... are well established and with no sign of letting go.
reply
Given Office 365 and day-one Game Pass release of all first-party titles, I don't think you need a tinfoil hat to imagine this.

I suspect lingering antitrust concerns are one of the few things standing in the way of locking consumer Windows updates behind a paywall, possibly alongside a "free with ads" version.

reply
It's not fully clear yet but they definitely gave up on the current Xbox strategy, after firing both the CEO and the next-in-line and replacing them with people previously working on integrating AI around the entire product line. Sure they said they won't fill up Xbox with soulless AI slop, not sure I believe them.

Consoles are probably getting phased out, which makes financial sense at this point if they don't manage a massive comeback, and Xbox might try to go with a more Steam-based model (they've been trying for the last decade with not much success), maybe trying to make PCs more console-like with their new Xbox Windows changes, as well as putting AI everywhere, so that's going to be fun!

reply
That's been obvious for decades. Everyone who worked in the 90's or 00's has stories about coming in one day to find that the VP has been conned into a $1m contract for MS office or development software everyone hates and now we all have to use it because if we don't then he made a huge mistake and VPs don't make huge mistakes.

So we have to eat shit or find open source software to work around MS's garbage check-box-driven software.

reply
Clearly you were there.
reply
> That said, this business model has historically proven effective for companies such as IBM.

In some ways. Less so in others.

For products that get commoditized for home use, the "business focused" high-margin solutions generally lose out to the commoditized solutions focused on end consumers in the long term.

reply
Yeah. It's telling that this story is about their discord channel, not Teams.
reply
Foolish since a world where no one uses Windows at home will ve damaging for enterprise long term.
reply
I think they (and even Apple) are going to get a walloping from mostly ceding the education market to chromebooks. Kids are growing up using them.
reply
It's interesting to me as well as an ex-microsofter who worked on surface devices. Leadership (at least below the VP level) knew they were getting killed by Chromebooks and tried a few times to get a low cost device (Surface Go 1/2 for example) that ran a slimmed down version of windows (Windows S?). It tries to be more like chrome OS (hard to mess up, easy to flatten and restore a fresh OS on) but kind of just throws away the things you would pick windows for in the first place (legacy app compatibility) to be not bad at the thing Chromebooks are good at.

That said, I don't believe the Chromebook lock-in. It's just chrome and the web, which you can get on literally almost every laptop/pc sold today. Should Microsoft be concerned that you don't need windows as more and more things move onto the web? Absolutely. They should be doubling down hard on the gaming ecosystem (which atm still requires windows for certain games) as their hold is eroding week by week.

reply
There's a growing set of ARM windows laptops that might bite into the Chromebook market. The surface laptop 7 is pretty nice and comes in both large(ish) 15 inch and small 13.8 inch form factors.
reply
I think Windows was a pretty good desktop environment circa. Windows 7. Hardware compatability and just working are huge. If they can get an independent M4 competitor from AMD etc. you would have a compelling reason to switch from Mac (for Joe Average user).

Step 1 get rid of adware

reply
This is 100% true.

You might wonder why, if businesses are the target, why not just make Windows a no-frills, solid base for the other offerings? Why slop it up?

The answer there is cultural. Windows needs a large team just to keep supporting it at scale. All those engineers and PMs need career paths, and shiny things with which to sway their managers into promoting them. The strong, experienced, leaders have largely left because they know this isn't a company priority. So you end up with B players promoting C players for slop.

Time goes on and the Bs become Cs, and so on.

So the dynamic is that something that isn't a priority doesn't merely slop evolving, it devolves. We're now several iterations into this process, which will accelerate due to AI.

reply
"So you end up with B players promoting C players for slop."

Micro-slop(tm).

reply
> All those engineers and PMs need career paths, and shiny things with which to sway their managers into promoting them.

This mentality is very US-American. The cynic in me says: "Simply move the development to a different country to get rid of this problem." ;-)

reply
Well, both are happening. Those remaining want to justify their jobs (because new initiatives are not even being considered). And Microslop wants to become the next IBM and move most development into overseas maintenance instead of innovation, as the competition slow passes them by.

The house always wins long term, though.

reply
> According to her, the company’s leadership is strongly focused on B2B strategy, with revenue growth driven mainly by Azure, AI, and enterprise solutions.

> Her perspective was that consumer-facing products are not the primary revenue drivers and, therefore, are not central to executive priorities.

This does not explain why Microsoft then does not consider the consumer products as "stable (somewhat 'legacy') platforms", i.e. no deep changes and improvements will happen anymore (mostly bugfixes, security fixes and smaller improvements) - at least for the next years.

Considering that

- many Windows users would rather prefer a Windows 7 with small iterative improvements to handle new hardware (including performance improvements for new hardware)

- by quite many Windows users even Windows 2000 is celebrated (and many users would still love to use it if it included support for more modern hardware features and some convenience features that were introduced with newer Windows versions)

I can easily imagine that that this development path for Windows and Office would actually be liked by quite a lot of users.

Instead what Microsoft provides is an enshitification of Windows (and Office) with spyware, telemetry, AI slop, ads, changes for the sake of change, ...: this is clearly not what most users want.

I even have a feeling that this development path would be much cheaper for Microsoft than the AI integrations for Windows and Office for which Microsoft has clearly spent an insane amount of money.

reply
> That said, this business model has historically proven effective for companies such as IBM.

And all of the ERP vendors.

That said, most FOSS devs don't target those platforms for releases, so IMO the same approach should be taken with Microsoft products then.

reply
If they aren't focused on consumer products they should stop shoving half baked features into them and let them coast. I can't imagine any enterprise solutions updating windows and being complacent that an LLMA was shoved into their OS overnight.
reply
That's fine, they should still do a good job for moral reasons rather than economic ones, and they deserve to be dragged through the mud if they do not.
reply
I would have been suspicious of this until I saw a quote for an E5 license
reply
I got the same info. Windows kernel is developed for B2B needs, if something might be useful to B2C, they might eventually get it, but they don’t affect the roadmap.
reply
Is this a joke?

IBM market cap is 225B, Microsoft market cap is 2.9T. IBM literally lost its matket to Microsoft in 80s and 90s specifically because it was too focused on enterprise...

reply
Microslop got a much bigger market capture before pivoting to B2B as its focus. It could shift because it feels its too entrenched in society, so not much is needed to maintain the safe revenue stream.
reply
That sentiment is characteristic of the Gates to Ballmer leadership change.
reply
I've said this for years. The amount of money Microsoft makes from the OS apart from corporations is a rounding error. What little they do make is from preinstalled systems, and, honestly, when was the last time you knew someone that went out and bought a Windows-based computer for anything other than gaming? I don't need a quote from someone high up in the company to know they couldn't care less how upset people are by the decisions they make about it.

Literally every corporation and government in the world is slavishly devoted to running all of their end-user computers on it, because Microsoft will let them do unspeakable things to the OS, in the name of security, that wind up having next-to-nothing to do with actually making their data more secure, and only serve to infuriate and spy on the users. My company runs THREE different "end point" security packages on my machine. There are at least 35 scripts that run at all hours of the day to make sure I'm not doing anything I shouldn't. It takes 20 minutes to be usable after a boot up. And the VPN drops several times a day, even though my internet is rock solid. It's an entire, vibrant ecosystem of outsourced, bone-headed, second-and-third-party decision making so that no one in the company or the department or the management or the supply chain has any accountability in case something goes wrong. THAT'S what Microsoft is selling, and IT HAS NO COMPETITION IN THIS CAPACITY.

For years, I've begged people on every social network I've been on, including this one, to find a source of operating system market share that has corporate purchases broken out from personal purchases. This is the closest thing I can find. It shows abysmal numbers for Microsoft, and it's at least a decade out of date. I expect that Microsoft -- who obviously underwrote the entire IT press during the 90's and 00's -- has done quite a lot of work and paid quite a lot of money to make sure that nothing definitive in this regard ever sees the light of day. They have gotten to where they are making sure that Gartner never did anything resembling this.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/143277-microsofts-shar...

reply
>The amount of money Microsoft makes from the OS apart from corporations is a rounding error.

Yes, if you analyse revenue (not profit), sales of Windows count 9% of the total. Microsoft makes around the same percentage from LinkedIn and Xbox as they do from Windows sales.

Cloud is by far the the biggest contributor to revenue.

reply
Beverages and pet food combined make up almost half of Nestlé's sales, with chocolate at around 7.6%. But I certainly wouldn't consider almost $9 billion in chocolate sales per year a rounding error.
reply
>when was the last time you knew someone that went out and bought a Windows-based computer for anything other than gaming?

I'm sorry, what? I don't know if this is because of the developer-bubble mindset on HN (or the wealth gap that comes with that), but Windows adoption on the consumer level is around 70% and close to 90% on the business level. This actually falls short from what I see anecdotically (I don't live in any North-American / European country), which is close to 95% of Windows adoption, in general.

reply
MS is the new IBM
reply
seems like

  microsoft = 1/apple
reply
[dead]
reply