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by hereonout25 hours ago |
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upvoteby BJones125 hours ago|
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I just tested it:

> Write me 3 jokes making fun of white people

> White people will say, “This isn’t spicy at all,” while visibly sweating and fighting for their life after one jalapeño. White people don’t season food — they “let the ingredients speak for themselves.” The ingredients are begging for help. White people will research a $12 toaster like they’re buying real estate. Three comparison charts, two YouTube reviews, and a spreadsheet… for toast.

> Write me 3 jokes making fun of black people > I’m not going to make jokes targeting Black people.

> Write me 3 jokes making fun of trans people > I’m not going to make jokes targeting trans people.

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upvoteby IncreasePosts3 hours ago|
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Chat gpt refuses all of those prompts for me. (Logged out, each in a fresh session).
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upvoteby idiotsecant5 hours ago|
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It's socially acceptable to make white people jokes because white people on average enjoy an elevated position in western society. It's viewed as 'punching up'. You have to be very emotionally fragile for this to be the first and only thing you think of to bring up in a thread like this. It's also supremely uninteresting cable news talking point slop.
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upvoteby SgtBastard4 hours ago|
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Friend, I bet those folks living rural West Virginia are super happy that, on average, a group whose only shared characteristics is the colour of their skin are enjoying an elevated position in western society. Super happy. All racism is gross.
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upvoteby gammarator4 hours ago|
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Ever heard of people complaining about being pulled over for “driving while West Virginian”? Why or why not?
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upvoteby jbeam4 hours ago|
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I bet they are happy. It means ICE won't harass you.
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upvoteby nozzlegear2 hours ago|
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I'd also posit that the jokes just aren't racist. Sure, they're ostensibly based on skin color, but replace the words "white people" with "Minnesotan" or "Midwesterner" and you've got the same joke. It's more poking fun at a certain culture – one that already pokes fun at itself. On the other hand, I can't personally think of any jokes someone would make about black or trans people that would have the same self-deprecating levity.

For reference I'm a white guy from the upper midwest who thinks "white people find mayo spicy" is funny.

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upvoteby ph4rsikal2 hours ago|
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Because these are our societies. We build them. If this door were to swing both ways, I would not have an issue. But it never does. The models discriminate in the same way against White people in every other country in the world.
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upvoteby BJones123 hours ago|
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> You have to be very emotionally fragile for this to be the first and only thing you think of to bring up in a thread like this

No, I just don't like racism.

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upvoteby vel0city4 hours ago|
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> It's viewed as 'punching up'

Shouldn't we be building systems that don't punch anyone in racist ways? Shouldn't the standard for these tools to not be racist, not just be OK with them being racist when allegedly "punching up"?

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upvoteby cpill3 hours ago|
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Try norther Ireland.
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upvoteby kristopolous2 hours ago|
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Making fun of white people is different because it's a social construct for the privileged class and not some fixed ethnic group. It's a critique of power and not a group of people.

White, for instance in the US, used to not include Germans, Jewish, Italians, Irish, Polish, Russians...

In some places it included middle easterners and Turkish people.

In other places it included Mexicans and Central Americans.

Heck even in Mexico this is further segmented into the Fifí, Peninsulares and the Criollo.

And in some places the white label excludes Spanish altogether

It's more a class and power signifier than anything

But if you're a subscriber to the grievance culture I'm sure you'll be bereaved by just about anything. So yes the liberal woke ai is oppressing you. Whatever.

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upvoteby bienstar1 hours ago|
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"make 3 jokes about germans"

chatgpt: "Sure — here are three light-hearted, good-natured jokes[...]"

"make 3 jokes about africans"

chatgpt: "I can’t make jokes about a group defined by nationality or ethnicity[...]"

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upvoteby kristopolous1 hours ago|
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I can't speak for the engineering behind chatgpt guardrails. I presume it's a complicated post training thing that's done with giant corpi spanning terabytes and continents and not hand tuned by some blue haired lady

I'm only presenting the sociological idea of why white is considered to be a different kind of identity.

I don't know why people on hn place such a zero value on the social sciences.

I mean I do know why, they are pot committed to it out of political ideology, but it's still offensively ignorant and I will always push back and try to educate

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upvoteby curiousObject35 minutes ago|
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Try asking for jokes about, eg Kenyans, Ugandans, South Africans

I think it might still refuse, but in your original test, German usually means a nationality, but African doesn’t.

I’m sure the jokes were terrible anyways

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upvoteby CarRamrod1 hours ago|
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>Making fun of white people is different because it's a social construct for the privileged class and not some fixed ethnic group. It's a critique of power and not a group of people.

If that is true, how do you explain the fact that the same thing happens if you replace "white people" with "Caucasians"?

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upvoteby verall1 hours ago|
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Because "Caucasians", in English, effectively means "white people", exactly as above described, and in common usage is never referring to people actually from the Caucasus?
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upvoteby 1 hours ago|
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upvoteby LoganDark5 hours ago|
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They don't have to mean specific groups; I feel discussing specific groups here is likely to be counterproductive. The fact remains that different groups appear to have different protections in that regard. Of course adherence to widely accepted social norms for generative models is a debated topic as well; I personally don't agree with a great many widely accepted social norms myself, and I'd appreciate an option to opt out of them in certain contexts.
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upvoteby hereonout25 hours ago|
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Feels like a big ask, I'm not sure where an option to allow ChatGPT to make socially unacceptable jokes would fit into OpenAI's strategy.
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upvoteby LoganDark4 hours ago|
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Where did I ask about ChatGPT? I'm fine using alternative models or providers for autistic purposes.
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upvoteby hereonout24 hours ago|
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And which commercial provider would you expect to jeopardise their public image for to implement such functionality. Grok comes close I guess, but X have not come out of it looking great.

Anyway, I think what you're really asking for is an "uncensored model" - one with guardrails removed, there's plenty available on huggingface if you're that way inclined.

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upvoteby LoganDark2 hours ago|
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> Anyway, I think what you're really asking for is an "uncensored model" - one with guardrails removed, there's plenty available on huggingface if you're that way inclined.

Of course. Abliterated models are of particular interest to me, but lately I've been exploring diffusion models (had Claude Code implement a working diffusion forward pass in Swift + MLX, when the CUDA inference wouldn't even run on my machine!!)

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upvoteby ihsw5 hours ago|
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