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Humans can't claim ownership, but they are still liable for the product of their bot. That's why MS was so quick to indemnify their users, they know full well that it is going to be super hard to prove that there is a key link to some original work.

The main analogy is this one: you take a massive pile of copyrighted works, cut them up into small sections and toss the whole thing in a centrifuge, then, when prompted to produce a work you use a statistical method to pull pieces of those copyrighted works out of the centrifuge. Sometimes you may find that you are pulling pieces out of the laundromat in the order in which they went in, which after a certain number of tokens becomes a copyright violation.

This suggests there are some obvious ways in which AI companies can protect themselves from claims of infringement but as far as I'm aware not a single one has protections in place to ensure that they do not materially reproduce any fraction of the input texts other than that they recognize prompts asking it to do so.

So it won't produce the lyrics of 'Let it be'. But they'll be happy to write you mountains of prose that strongly resembles some of the inputs.

The fact that they are not doing that tells you all you really need to know: they know that everything that their bots spit out is technically derived from copyrighted works. They also have armies of lawyers and technical arguments to claim the opposite.

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> Humans can't claim ownership, but they are still liable for the product of their bot.

sure,

but that is completely unrelated to this discussion

which is about AI using code as input to produce similar code as output

not about AI being trained on code

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> which is about AI using code as input to produce similar code as output

> not about AI being trained on code

The two are very directly connected.

The LLM would not be able to do what it does without being trained, and it was trained on copyrighted works of others. Giving it a piece of code for a rewrite is a clear case of transformation, no matter what, but now it also rests on a mountain of other copyrighted code.

So now you're doubly in the wrong, you are willfully using AI to violate copyright. AI does not create original works, period.

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Every programmer is trained on the copyrighted works of others. there a vanishingly few modern programs with available source code in the public domain.

it isn't clear how/if llm is different from the brain but we all have training by looking at copywrited source code at some time.

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> it isn't clear how/if llm is different from the brain

It's very clear: the one is a box full of electronics, the other is part of the central nervous system of a human being.

> but we all have training by looking at copywrited source code at some time.

That may be so, but not usually the copyrighted source code that we are trying to reproduce. And that's the bit that matters.

You can attempt to whitewash it but at its core it is copyright infringement and the creation of derived works.

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> but we all have training by looking at copywrited[sic] source code at some time.

The single word "training" is here being used to describe two very different processes; what an LLM does with text during training is at basically every step fundamentally distinct from what a human does with text.

Word embedding and gradient descent just aren't anything at all like reading text!

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Indeed, but that's just a misdirection. We don't actually know how a human brain learns, so it is hard to base any kind of legal definition on that difference. Obviously there are massive differences but what those differences are is something you can debate just about forever.

I have a lot of music in my head that I've listened to for decades. I could probably replicate it note-for-note given the right gear and enough time. But that would not make any of my output copyrightable works. But if I doodle for three minutes on the piano, even if it is going to be terrible that is an original work.

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Programmer training and AI training are legally distinct processes.
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> humans can't either as they haven't produced it. If there is guaranteed no one which can claim ownership it often seen as being in the public domain.

Says who?. The US ruling the article refers to does not cover this.

It is different in other countries. Even if US law says it is public domain (which is probably not the case) you had better not distribute it internationally. For example, UK law explicitly says a human is the author of machine generated content: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47260110

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