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I maintain a ~250K LoC Zig compiler code base [0]. We've been through several breaking Zig releases (although the code base was much smaller for most of that time; Writergate is the main one we've had to deal with since the code base crossed the 100K LoC mark).

The language and stdlib changing hasn't been a major pain point in at least a year or two. There was some upgrade a couple of years ago that took us awhile to land (I think it might have been 0.12 -> 0.13 but I could be misremembering the exact version) but it's been smooth sailing for a long time now.

These days I'd put breaking releases in the "minor nuisance" category, and when people ask what I've liked and disliked about using Zig I rarely even remember to bring it up.

[0]: https://github.com/roc-lang/roc

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At this point do you believe porting the codebase to Zig was the right decision? Do you have any regrets?

Also, I'm excited about trying out your language even moreso than Zig. :)

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I've worked on two "production" zig codebases: tigerbeetle [0] and sig [1].

These larger zig projects will stick to a tagged release (which doesn't change), and upgrade to newly tagged releases, usually a few days or months after they come out. The upgrade itself takes like a week, depending on the amount of changes to be done. These projects also tend to not use other zig dependencies.

[0]: https://github.com/tigerbeetle/tigerbeetle/pulls?q=is%3Apr+a...

[1]: https://github.com/Syndica/sig/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Akpro...

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I really wanted to deep dive into zig but I'm into rust now kinda late as I'm really just started like 2024.

Have you tried rust? how does it compared to zig?

* just asking

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Two different philosophical approaches with Zig and Rust.

- Zig: Let's have a simple language with as few footguns as possible and make good code easy to write. However we value explicitness and allow the developer to do anything they need to do. C interoperability is a primary feature that is always available. We have run time checks for as many areas of undetermined behaviour as we can.

- Rust: let's make the compiler the guardian of what is safe to do. Unless the developer hits the escape hatch, we will disallow behaviour to keep the developer safe. To allow the compiler to reason about safety we will have an intricate type system which will contain concepts like lifetimes and data mobility. This will get complex sometimes so we will have a macro system to hide that complexity.

Zig is a lot simpler than Rust, but I think it asks more of it's developer.

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> However we value explicitness and allow the developer to do anything they need to do*

* except for having unused variables. Those are so dangerous the compiler will refuse the code every time.

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That's disingenous, Rust tries to minimize errors, first at compile time then at runtime, even if it at some discomfort of to programer.

Zig goes for simplicity while removing a few footguns. It's more oriented towards programmer enjoyment. Keep in mind that programmers don't distinguish ease of writing code from ease of writing unforeseen errors.

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Rust is a Bugatti Veyron, Zig is a McLaren F1.
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Zig is a modern C,

Rust is a modern C++/OCaml

So if you enjoy C++, Rust is for you. If you enjoy C and wish it was more verbose and more modern, try Zig.

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As someone who never liked writing anything C++ since 2000+ (did like it before) I cannot agree with this. C++ and Rust are not comparable in this sense at all.

One can argue Rust is what C++ wanted to be maybe. But C++ as it is now is anything but clean and clear.

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Comparing Rust to C++ feels strange to me.

It’s like people do it just because Zig is very comparable to C. So the more complex Rust must be like something else that is also complex, right? And C++ is complex, so…

But that is a bit nonsensical. Rust isn’t very close to C++ at all.

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I wrote lots of C++ before learning Rust, and I enjoyed it. Since learning Rust, I write no more C++. I found no place in which C++ is a better fit than Rust, and so it's my "new C++".

For example, high performance servers (voltlane.net), programming languages (https://github.com/HF-Foundation, https://github.com/lionkor/mcl-rs, and one private one), webservers (beampaint.com) and lots of other domains.

Rust is close to C++ in that it is a systems language that allows a reasonable level of zero-cost abstractions.

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It is kind of interesting that the Linux kernel is slowly adopting Rust, whereas Zig seems like it would be a more natural fit?

I know, timelines not matching up, etc.

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Memory safety by default in kernel sounds like a good idea :). However I don't think that C is being _replaced_ by Rust code, it's rather that more independent parts that don't need to deeply integrate with the existing C constructs can be written in a memory safe language, and IMO that's a fine tradeoff
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Definitely not. Rust gives you a tangible benefit in terms of correctness. It's such a valuable benefit that it outweighs the burden of incorporating a new language in the kernel, with all that comes with it.

Zig offers no such thing. It would be a like-for-like replacement of an unsafe old language with an unsafe new one. May even be a better language, but that's not enough reason to overcome the burden.

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And “if you enjoy C++/if you enjoy C” are gross oversimplifications.
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My take, unfortunately, is that Zig might be a more modern C but that gives us little we don’t already have.

Rust gives us memory safety by default and some awesome ML-ish type system features among other things, which are things we didn’t already have. Memory safety and almost totally automatic memory management with no runtime are big things too.

Go, meanwhile, is like a cleaner more modern Java with less baggage. You might also compare it to Python, but compiled.

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Seriously asking, where Go sits in this categorization?
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Nowhere, or wherever C# would sit. Go is a high level managed language.
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Go is modern Java, at least based on the main area of usage: server infrastructure and backend services.
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Tbh Go is also really nice for various local tools where you don’t want something as complex as C++ but also don’t want to depend on the full C# runtime (or large bundles when self-contained), or the same with Java.

With Wails it’s also a low friction way to build desktop software (using the heretical web tech that people often reach for, even for this use case), though there are a few GUI frameworks as well.

Either way, self contained executables that are easy to make and during development give you a rich standard library and not too hard of a language to use go a long way!

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i wonder what makes go more modern than java, in terms of features.
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The tooling and dependency management probably
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It's also a modern C.

If you enjoy C and wish it was less verbose and more modern, try Go.

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Go has a garbage collector though. This makes it unsuitable for many use cases where you could have used C or C++ in the past. Rust and Zig don't have a GC, so they are able to fill this role.

GC is a showstopper for my day job (hard realtime industrial machine control/robotics), but would also be unwanted for other use cases where worst case latency is important, such as realtime audio/video processing, games (where you don't want stutter, remember Minecraft in Java?), servers where tail latency matters a lot, etc.

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> GC is a showstopper for my day job (hard realtime industrial machine control/robotics)

Which is a very niche use case to begin with, isn't it? It doesn't really contradict what the parent comment stated about Go feeling like modern C (with a boehm gc included if you will). We're using it this way and it feels just fine. I'd be happy to see parts of our C codebase rewritten in Go, but since that code is security sensitive and has already been through a number of security reviews there's little motivation to do so.

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> Which is a very niche use case to begin with, isn't it?

My specific use case is yes, but there are a ton of microcontrollers running realtime tasks all around us: brakes in cars, washing machine controllers, PID loops to regulate fans in your computer, ...

Embedded systems in general are far more common than "normal" computers, and many of them have varying levels of realtime requirements. Don't believe me? Every classical computer or phone will contain multiple microcontrollers, such as an SSD controller, a fan controller, wifi module, cellular baseband processor, ethernet NIC, etc. Depending on the exact specs of your device of course. Each SOC, CPU or GPU will contain multiple hidden helper cores that effectively run as embedded systems (Intel ME, AMD PSP, thermal management, and more). Add to that all the appliances, cars, toys, IOT things, smartcards, etc all around us.

No, I don't think it is niche. Fewer people may work on these, but they run in far more places.

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Thanks. I write some Go, and feel the same about it. I really enjoy it actually.

Maybe I'll jump to Zig as a side-gig (ha, it rhymes), but I still can't motivate myself to play with Rust. I'm happy with C++ on that regard.

Maybe gccrs will change that, IDK, yet.

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C++ added OOP to C.

Rust is not object-oriented.

That makes your statement wrong.

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Time to start zig++
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Zig 0.15 is pretty stable. The biggest issue I face daily are silent compiler errors (SIGBUS) for trivial things, e.g. a typo in an import path. I've yet to find exactly why this [only sometimes] causes such a crash, but they're a real pain to figure out over a large changeset. `zig ast-check` sometimes catches the error, else Claude's pretty good at spotting where I accidentally re-used a variable name (again, 90% of the time I do that, it's an easy error, but the other 10%, I get a message-less compiler crash). It sounds like the changes in the OP might be specifically addressing these types of issues.

Also, my .zig-cache is currently at 173GB, which causes some issues on the small Linux ARM VPS I test with.

As for upgrades. I upgraded lightpanda to 0.14 then 0.15 and it was fine. I think for lightpanda, the 0.16 changes might not be too bad, with the only potential issue coming from our use of libcurl and our small websocket server (for CDP connections). Those layers are relatively isolated / abstracted, so I'm hopeful.

As a library developer, I've given up following / tracking 0.16. For one, the change don't resonate with me, and for another, it's changing far too fast. I don't think anyone expects 0.16 support in a library right now. I've gotten PRs for my "dev" branches from a few brave souls and everyone seems happy with that arrangement.

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> The biggest issue I face daily are silent compiler errors (SIGBUS) for trivial things, e.g. a typo in an import path.

I don't use zig. My experience has been that caches themselves are sources of bugs (not talking about zig only, but in general). Clearing all relevant caches occasionally is useful when you're experiencing weird bugs.

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I don't know why I was downvoted here. One day, I was experiencing weird compilation errors. Clearing the `ccache` C/C++ compiler cache helped get past the problem. Yes, I could have investigated in detail what was the issue and if ccache had a bug but sometimes you don't have the luxury of investigating everything your toolchain throws at you.
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That .zig-cache seems massive to me. I keep mine on a tmpfs and remove it every time the tmpfs is full.

Do you see any major problems when you remove your .zig-cache and start over?

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Just a slower build. From ~20 seconds to ~65 seconds the first time after I nuke it.
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But why is it so big in the first place?

I was searching around for causes and came across the following issues: https://github.com/ziglang/zig/issues/15358 which was moved to https://codeberg.org/ziglang/zig/issues/30193

The following quotes stand out

> zig's caching system is designed explicitly so that garbage collection could happen in one process simultaneously while the cache is being used by another process.

> I just ran WizTree to find out why my disk was full, and the zig cache for one project alone was like 140 GB.

> not only the .zig-cache directory in my projects, but the global zig cache directory which is caching various dependencies: I'm finding each week I have to clear both caches to prevent run-away disk space

Like what's going on? This doesn't seem normal at all. I also read somewhere that zig stores every version of your binary as well? Can you shed some light on why it works like this in zigland?

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AFAIK garbage collection is basically not implemented yet. I myself do `ZIG_LOCAL_CACHE_DIR=~/.cache/zig` so I only have to nuke single directory whenever I feel like it.
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what exactly people call 'garbage collection' in Zig? build cache cleanup?
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Indeed what was referred to here is the zig build system cache.
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Does Zig have incremental builds yet? Or is it 20 secs each time for your build.
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20 seconds each time. Last time I tried to enable incremental build, it wasn't working for us. It was a while ago, but I think it had to do with something in our v8 bridge.
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I have heard that from other Zig devs too. Must get a bit annoying as the project grows. But I guess it will be supported sooner or later.
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The forever backwards compatible promise of C++ was a tremendous design mistake that has resulted in mindshare death as of 2026. It might suck to have to modify your code to continue to get it to work, but it’s the right long term approach.
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> that has resulted in mindshare death as of 2026

I could make a bet that as of 2026 still more C++ projects are being started than Rust + Zig combined.

World is much more vast than ShowHN and GitHub would indicate.

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Being started? I would take that bet.
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Rust has managed just fine to remain mostly backwards compatible since 1.0 , while still allowing for evolution of the language through editions.

This puts much more work on the compiler development side, but it's a great boon for the ecosystem.

To be fair, zig is pre 1.0, but Zig is also already 8 years old. Rust turned 1.0 at ~ 5 years, I think.

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Rust started in 2006 and reached v1 in 2015, that's 9 years.
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Mindshare death is a very large overstatement given the massive amount of legacy C++ out there that will be maintained by poor souls for year to come. But you are right, there used to be a great language hiding within C++ if the committee ever dared to break backwards compat. But even if they did it now it would be too late and they'd just end up with a worse Rust or Zig.
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The biggest problem with C++ is that while everyone agrees there is a great language hiding in it, everyone also has a remarkably different idea of what that great language actually is.
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I don't agree there's a great language hiding in C++. My high level objections would be that the type system is garbage and the syntax is terrible, so you'd need a different type system and syntax and that's nothing close to C++ after the changes.

After many years of insisting that "dialects" of C++ are a terrible idea, despite the reality that most C++ users have a specific dialect they use - Bjarne Stroustrup has endorsed essentially the same thing but as "profiles" to address safety issues. So for people who think there is a "great language" in there perhaps in C++ 29 or C++ 32 you will be able to find out for yourselves that you're wrong.

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There are multiple great languages hiding within it
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As proven a few times, it doesn't matter if committee decides to break something if compiler vendors aren't on board with what is being broken.

There is still this disconnection on how languages under ISO process work in the industry.

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The C++ standards committee’s antiquated reliance on compiler “vendors” holds it back. They should adopt maintenance of clang and bless it as the reference compiler.
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There is a reason GCC, LLVM, CUDA, Metal, HPC,.. rely on C++ and will never rewrite to something else, including Zig.
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Looking at LLVM build times I seriously believe that C would have been the better choice :/ (it wouldn't be a problem if LLVM wouldn't be the base for so many other projects)

Same for the Metal shading language. C++ adds exactly nothing useful to a shading language over a C dialect that's extended with vector and matrix math types (at least they didn't pick ObjC or Swift though).

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CUDA, SYSCL, HLSL evolution roadmap, and Khronos future for Vulkan beg to differ with your opinion.
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Yes, inertia. If those projects started today, they would likely choose rust.
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Why isn't rustc using Cranelift then?
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I can think a few reasons:

- Cranelift applies less optimizations in exchange for faster compilation times, because it was developed to compile WASM (wasmtime), but turns out that is good enough for Rust debug builds.

- Cranelift does not support the wide range of platforms (AFAIK just X86_64 and some ARM targets)

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So it isn't just a matter of "they would use Rust instead".

There is a whole ecosystem of contributions across the globe and the lingua franca used by those contributors.

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Hilariously, they broke this compatibility. std::auto_ptr was an abomination, but removing it from the language was needless and undermined the long term stability that differentiates C++ from upstarts.
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those that used it were rightly punished by the removal
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The language itself does not change much, but the std does. It depends on individuals, but some people rely less on the std, some copy the old code that they still need.

> Are there cases where packages you may use fall behind the language?

Using third party packages is quite problematic yes. I don't recommend using them too much personally, unless you want to make more work for yourself.

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Using third party packages has gotten a lot easier with the changes described in this devlog https://ziglang.org/devlog/2026/#2026-02-06
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Pinning your build chain and tooling to specific commits helps with stability but also traps you with old bugs or missing features. Chasing upstream fixes is a chore if you miss a release window and suddenly some depended package won't even compiile anymore.
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You can fix you code 10 times you will fix it.
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I recently tried to learn it and found it frustrating. A lot of docs are for 0.15 but the latest is (or was) 0.16 which changed a lot of std so none of the existing write ups were valid anymore. I plan to revisit once it gets more stable because I do like it when I get it to work.
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0.16 is the development version. 0.15.2 is latest release.
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I stopped updating the compiler at 0.14 for three projects. Getting the correct toolchain is part of my (incremental) build process. I don't use any external Zig packages.

I think one of the more PITA changes necessary to get these projects to 0.15 is removing `usingnamespace`, which I've used to implement a kind of mixin. The projects are all a few thousand LOC and it shouldn't be that much trouble, but enough trouble that none of what I gain from upgrading currently justify doing it. I think that's fine.

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> I know Bun's using zig to a degree of success, was wondering how the rest were doing.

Just a degree of success?

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Mitchell Hashimoto (developer of Ghostty) talks about Zig a lot. Ghostty is written in it, and he seems to love it. The churn doesn't seem to bother him at all.

I asked him about in a thread a while back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47206009#47209313

The makers of TigerBeatle also rave about how good Zig is.

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For those like me who have never heard of this software: Bun, some sort of package management service for javascript. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bun_(software)
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Bun is a full fledged JavaScript runtime! Think node.js but fast
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> Think node.js but fast

Color me extremely sceptical. Surely if you could make javascript fast google would have tried a decade ago....

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Bun uses JSC (JavaScriptCore) instead of V8. From what I understand, whereas Node/V8 has a higher tier 4 "top speed", JSC is more optimized for memory and is faster to tier up early/less overhead. Good for serverless. Great for agents -> Anthropic purchase.
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> Good for serverless. Great for agents -> Anthropic purchase.

Surely nobody would use javascript for either yea? The weaknesses of the language are amplified in constrained environments: low certainty, high memory pressure, high startup costs.

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I think Bun helps with the memory pressure, granted this is relative to V8. I'd pushback on the certainty with the reality that TS provides a significant drop in entropy while benefiting from what is a sweet spot between massive corpus size and low barrier for typical problem/use-case complexity. You'll never have the fastest product with JS, but you will always have good speed to market and be able to move quickly.
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Claude CLI is based on bun. The dependency is so complete that Bun have now joined Anthropic.
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Claude CLI is not exactly a reference of usable software
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It's plenty usable. Most of the problems with the claude TUI stem from it being a TUI (no way to query the terminal emulator's displayed character grid), so you have to maintain your own state and try to keep them in sync, which more than a few TUIs will fail at at least sometimes, hence the popularity of conventions like Ctrl+L to redraw.
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> Surely nobody would use javascript for either yea?

It's probably the most popular language for serverless.

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I can't vouch for this behavior but obviously you can have a better serverless experience than writing lisp with the shittiest syntax invented by man
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Only because the likes of Vercel and Netlify barely offer anything else on their free tiers.

When people go AWS, Azure, GCP,... other languages take the reigns.

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Do you have any stats on the latter?
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The actual JS code is in the same ballpark as nodejs. They get fast by specializing to each platform's fastest APIs instead of using generic ones, reimplementing JS libraries in Zig (for example npm or jest) and using faster libraries (for example they use the oniguruma regex engine). Also you don't need an extra transpiling step when using TypeScript.
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they have, v8 is a pretty fast engine and an engineering marvel. bun is faster at cost of having worse jit and less correctness
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