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Nurses in the US are actually very highly paid. Ask anyone how their week was. They'll all say it was crap.
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Exactly, ask anyone in a job for the money how their week was.

Not saying nursing is stress free, or every nurse is bad, but like tech companies in 2021, it's full of directionless people who pushed through the cert program to get paid $50/hr with $100/hr weekend shifts and be disgruntled with you that you are making them do work.

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The disillusionment comes from hospital admins constantly squeezing blood from a stone.

Patient populations are up, nursing FTEs down. Support staff down.

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And those Admin Idiots never cut staff in Admin, it's always the Nurses and Doctors who get the pressure
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What an arrogant comment.

Nursing is one of the most physically and mentally demanding jobs I know of, at least in Germany.

And I bet 80% of the Techbros here wouldn't last a month in it, given how many lost their minds over a simple RTO-Mandate.

Maybe watch the movie "Late Shift" to get an idea of how a Workday is https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=C7o-omvW_DI

I doubt that "directionless" people would put up with those working conditions, and many leave the sector after a few years, simply because they burn out. Nearly no one works 100% long-term, just because it's too much too.

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Perhaps unlike Germany, in the US, people in those positions will not be able to come close to earning what they earn if they leave. Probably only half at best. A medical cert doesn't translate to much else besides the cert.

So like you mentioned, it's very difficult and grueling work, and people (in the US at least) get trapped because of the money. Passionless souls doing something they hate because they'll lose their upscale home and Mercedes if they quit.

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I doubt that they hate what they do, it's just the shitty working conditions that render you unempathic and cynical.

Most of them care very much about what they do, and give everything they can for the patients. Otherwise they would have quit a long time ago. (I've had to do a 3-month nursing internship as part of my medical studies, it's mandatory in Germany)

Better staffing makes a day and night difference. I've experienced it first-hand as a doctor. The more overworked you are, the more cynical and unempathic you get.

After a weekend or some time off, it's already much better

In other countries with better staffing (Switzerland or Austria), it's a also very noticeable how much better the mood and morale is of the staff.

Nurses in Germany could never afford a Mercedes or an upscale home, but they would also probably make less, switching jobs. It's not that they don't love their job, they just can't take it anymore. You also rarely see old nurses for that reason.

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Well then, I am glad Germany figured out better pricing for healthcare. If the pay is middling and the work hard, you end up with mostly committed workers, because others don't enter the field with dollar signs in their eyes.

I hope you see that my point isn't that nursing is easy, my point is that (in the US) the pay is very high and the barrier to entry is moderate. So it becomes a magnet for people who just want to make money. This becomes even more true for med tech jobs, where you can blast through a cert in a year, and land a $30/hr job pretty quickly. That's about 50% more money than people typically in that education class earn.

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Insurers are only allowed to keep a % as profits. Higher spending increases the absolute amount of profit that can be retained.
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Having worked in medicine, I agree about providers. People who probably got in it to help people burn out immediately and become like the rest of us looking for the best paycheck with a tolerable workplace.

Insurance companies make plenty of money though. Cigna makes $7-8B per year and pays a decent dividend.

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They pay a 2% dividend and the stock is up 10% in 5 years.

That's a D tier stock.

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I don't think how it relates to other stocks is meaningful to the question of whether or not insurance companies make money.
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They add an entire layer of make work and waste just for existing.
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> health insurers...'re on your team and benefit from lower prices just as much as you do

You're missing a very, very, very important piece here.

Which is that the lowest price of all is to deny treatment entirely.

They are not on your team, they are the opposite team. Their revenue is basically fixed, at the level of your premiums. But the more health care they pay for you to receive, the less profit they make. That's just arithmetic.

This is why there are so many horror stories of people being denied necessary treatment, or having to fight for months and years to get their treatment actually paid for. Insurance providers are incentivized to do their absolute best at taking your money and then not paying for care, through every sort of technicality and "mistake" and arbitrary judgment and limit they can come up with.

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No, that's not how it works. Due to the ACA minimum medical loss ratio, most health plans have no direct financial incentive to deny treatment.
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They still do, because that's a minimum. If they have to spend 80% of premiums on medical care, then they make a lot more profit by spending just that mandated 80%, as opposed to 85% or 90%. Which they can achieve by denying claims. That's the direct financial incentive.
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You seem to be confused about basic arithmetic. First of all, the minimum MLR for most health plans is actually 85% (and most come in significantly above that for competitive reasons). And due to the MLR, health plans actually have a perverse incentive to approve more claims because 15% of a large number is more than 15% of a small number. This is one of the many reasons why total healthcare costs have continued to grow faster than inflation.
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It's nice to know they do it just for the love of the game.
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Mostly they do it because their customers (employers that sponsor health plans) ask them to in order to hold down costs.
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The several+ times in my life I've had to sort out billing issues, the health "insurance" agents have been helpful and friendly, stating what bills should be in no uncertain terms, even offering to conference call with billing departments to get things resolved, etc... Meanwhile provider billing departments routinely try to defraud me, even going so far as to bully me to pay those fraudulent amounts, don't follow up on things (eg filing claims) that are their responsibility and that they've said they will take care of, and generally make their problems into my problems.

This certainly isn't a defense of health "insurance" companies though! I just think they're better modeled as Lovecraftian horrors animated by paperwork and compelling the creation of ever more paperwork to feed on, rather than money-grubbing cheapskates as the pop-political narrative goes. And the approaches for fixing one are much different than the approaches for fixing the other.

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If health insurers are on my team why do they blatantly lie about their network coverage to me? Why do they list providers as in-network, when the providers consider themselves out of network?

Why aren't the executives of these insurers shilling ghost networks not in prison for mail fraud?

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