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> "Ubuntu themselves tell you not to do it" - you do see it right? Let us see how you forgive Windows for breaking things by ignoring Microsoft's advice and blame them anyway when it breaks.

Not giving a supported upgrade path between version N and N+1 of your operating system is unacceptable, user hostile, and not something a home user could deal with. "Install from scratch, wipe all your files, and set everything up again" is not OK. You can upgrade Windows from 1.0 through 11 without Microsoft saying "nah, this is impossible": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwXX5FQEl88

> No, they don't ask that as the first choice - this is what they say in https://docs.jj-vcs.dev/latest/install-and-setup/:

"the binaries" are a tarball whose instructions refer back to the previous document, whose "Install > Linux" section starts "from source" and says "go obtain Rust > 1.88", so all of the previous problems still apply.

by noisy_boy4 hours ago|

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> "the binaries" are a tarball whose instructions refer back to the previous document, whose "Install > Linux" section starts "from source" and says "go obtain Rust > 1.88", so all of the previous problems still apply.

Again with the assertions without checking things. This is the path of "the binaries":

https://github.com/jj-vcs/jj/releases/tag/v0.39.0

I downloaded the file myself and extracted to see:

    $ > ls -l jj-v0.39.0-x86_64-unknown-linux-musl.tar.gz 
    -rw-r--r--. 1 xxxx xxxx 10373711 Mar xx xx:xx jj-v0.39.0-x86_64-unknown-linux-musl.tar.gz
    $ > tar xzvf jj-v0.39.0-x86_64-unknown-linux-musl.tar.gz 
    ./
    ./README.md
    ./LICENSE
    ./jj
    $ > ls -l jj
    -rwxr-xr-x. 1 xxxx xxxx 27122184 Mar  5 02:33 jj
    $ > file jj
    jj: ELF 64-bit LSB pie executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), static-pie linked, BuildID[sha1]=70d48428bc2100069e6813aff97e3dce8d2bb4a0, not stripped
    $ > ./jj version
    jj 0.39.0-d9689cd9b51b4139d2842fcf6c30f65f4eed8cd1
    $ >

It is overconfident low-skill users like you that bring a bad name to Linux.

by Arainach3 hours ago|

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From your link, at the very top: "See the installation instructions to get started".

Not "figure out how to extract a tarball, find somewhere unspecified on your path to put things blah blah" but "to get started go read this doc whose first step is to install rust, which your package manager isn't capable of".

This is a fairly standard Linux experience, not one reserved for developer tools.

On Windows, if you're not going through an app store you get an EXE or MSI installer that you double click and it does everything else necessary. Every time.

by noisy_boy3 hours ago|

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Yeah. Maybe just stop using Linux. You'll never be happy with it anyway. Most its-never-my-fault people aren't.

by applfanboysbgon3 hours ago|

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And this is why Linux desktop remains a ~1% marketshare OS, despite all of the vocal complaints about the corporate enshittification of Windows. Countless people say they're going to switch out of frustration, and then quickly meet reality and understand how good they actually have it with Windows when they try Linux, not at all helped by encountering the snobby community who will deride anyone for not knowing everything they know. The Linux ecosystem very much assumes you already have the knowledge of having always used Linux. For somebody who just started using it, "following the install instructions at the top of the page" is a perfectly reasonable thing to be doing. It is not the user's fault if those instructions are bad and you could totally get it working more easily if only you already knew what you were doing.

I note you also dropped the line of argument about the OS updating, where you were chiding them, saying they did need to follow instructions in that case. Of course, the instructions in that case are indefensible - you cannot seriously suggest an OS is production-ready for the real world if the instructions are "this cannot be updated. Seriously, don't even try.".

by noisy_boy1 hours ago|

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> The Linux ecosystem very much assumes you already have the knowledge of having always used Linux.

Yes, because as per the poster, they are not a novice:

> For reference I've been using Linux since Red Hat 5.2 circa 2000. I cut my teeth debugging problems without internet access. I ran an LTSP lab at my high school. I remember the hell that was XF86Config (I was there, Gandalf, I was there 3000 years ago).

No one is expecting a novice to know how to run curl, untar and compile. This is not that situation by the very admission above.

> For somebody who just started using it, "following the install instructions at the top of the page" is a perfectly reasonable thing to be doing. It is not the user's fault if those instructions are bad and you could totally get it working more easily if only you already knew what you were doing.

Did you actually go to jj's github which the poster mentioned? This is what is literally the top of the Installation page:

    Installation and setup¶
    Installation¶
    Download pre-built binaries for a release¶
    There are pre-built binaries of the last released version of jj for Windows, Mac, or Linux (the "musl" version should work on all distributions).

I demonstrated in this thread that if you download and untar the pre-built binary, it works perfectly. No curl command or compilation necessary. Again, I don't expect a novice to know this but for someone proclaiming to have wrestled with XF86Config config, this should be par for the course.

> I note you also dropped the line of argument about the OS updating, where you were chiding them, saying they did need to follow instructions in that case. Of course, the instructions in that case are indefensible - you cannot seriously suggest an OS is production-ready for the real world if the instructions are "this cannot be updated. Seriously, don't even try.".

I admit that I was shallow on this point. I did research further and Raspberry Pi situation isn't great when it comes to upgrades. Most people are using separate SD cards to host the OS and doing a hard upgrade. I admit and apologise to @Arainach for not checking further on this point and ignoring it.

Edit: I guess today was the day I couldn't ignore Linux bashing from an experienced user and got somewhat carried away. My tone could and should have been softer.

by rmunn3 hours ago|

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> Why? Why not connect [the Raspberry Pi] to the network you want so that it just connects to that going forward?

I'm not the guy who wrote that, but I had the same use-case myself. (Except that I happened to choose the correct networking stack so I didn't have a problem). I wanted to set up a Raspberry Pi in my parents' house that would run Tailscale so I could use it as an exit node. (With my parents' full knowledge and permission). I wanted to pre-configure it with their WiFi password so that when I showed up for Christmas, I didn't have to spend any time configuring the device, just plug it in and go have dinner. (Then they changed ISPs, got a new router with a new WiFi password, and I had to ask them to plug it into the wired network so I could connect to it remotely and change the WiFi password again, so I had to do that work twice. But thankfully, I didn't have to walk them through the steps, just say "Hey, please plug it into the router with an Ethernet cable until you get an email from me telling you I've reconfigured the WiFi".)