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> "It's not that you refrain from doing something because it will offend Russia. If Russia is doing something that we don't want it to do, we should offend them."[0]

Has Russia ever refrained from offending the West when it suited their interests?

> And should I mention the US "midwifing" the coup in Ukraine in 2014? [2]

It takes some really stupid arrogance to say shit like this when Ukraine literally had Russian stooge as a president at the time, installed via fossil fuel extortion. If Russia wanted truly neutral Ukraine, they should've backed the fuck off in the first place.

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>Has Russia ever refrained from offending the West

Of course. Like abstaining in a UN SC vote, allowing NATO bomb Libya.

>Russian stooge as a president at the time, installed via fossil fuel extortion

Nope, Yanukovich was elected by Ukrainian people.[0] Previous pro-Western president received only 6% of votes in the first round.

>If Russia wanted truly neutral Ukraine, they should've backed the fuck off in the first place.

Enlighten me, how backing off when the US supports pro-Western coup in the Ukraine would've resulted in "truly neutral Ukraine"? And please mind your language

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Ukrainian_presidential_el...

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> Of course. Like abstaining in a UN SC vote, allowing NATO bomb Libya.

The generosity!

> Nope, Yanukovich was elected by Ukrainian people.[0]

Tell me more of those exciting stories. From your link:

>> After all ballots were counted, the Ukrainian Central Election Commission declared that Yanukovych won the election with 48.95% of the vote compared with 45.47% for Tymoshenko.

> Previous pro-Western president received only 6% of votes in the first round.

After the guy was poisoned, disfigured beyond repair all while fighting smear campaigns calling him beekeeper.

You should've linked [0] when you talk about Yushchenko, comrade.

> Enlighten me, how backing off when the US supports pro-Western coup in the Ukraine would've resulted in "truly neutral Ukraine"? And please mind your language

Quid pro quo, it's a really tough principle for Russian to understand, because they're only used to extortion.

> And please mind your language

Your attempt at patronizing is as pathetic as Russian military takeover of Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%932006_Russia%E2%80...

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I don’t understand where the arrogance comes in here. I see underhandedness and realpolitik, but those don’t arrogance make.

(I’ll also note that it seems very weird to use a pinky promise that the US made with a country that no longer exists as some kind of “gotcha.” You presumably don’t factor the Austro-Hungarian empire’s commitments into your geopolitics.)

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>no longer exists

Russia is legal successor to the USSR.

Somehow the West hadn't written off the debts of "a country that no longer exists" and Russia paid out all of them.

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> Somehow the West hadn't written off the debts of "a country that no longer exists" and Russia paid out all of them.

Shall we make concessions to Weimar Republic and Nazi Germany too?

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> NATO, NATO would not be moved eastward.

1. Which Gorbachev himself said never happened

2. Before 2014 almost no one in Ukraine wanted to join NATO. After 2014 almost everyone wanted to join NATO. After 2022 Sweden and Finland ran to NATO.

> it's not Russia's business if NATO decides to expand.

Countries bordering Russia literally run to NATO the moment they have a choice. I wonder why. It couldn't be Russia who's to blame, could it?

> And should I mention the US "midwifing" the coup in Ukraine in 2014?

Just like Russia is midwifing crises and elections actoss Europe and countries like Georgia and Azerbaijan? Aurely this calls for immediate invasion and hundreds of thousands of deaths.

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>Which Gorbachev himself said never happened

He lied.[0] No one wants to look like a fool.

>Before 2014 almost no one in Ukraine wanted to join NATO. After 2014 almost everyone wanted to join NATO.

Pro-Western Ukrainian president submitted request to join NATO in 2008 and the NATO response was positive.

And your statement is false, before 2014 there was significant minority that favored joining NATO and after 2014 the percentage grew but was very far from "almost everyone"

>It couldn't be Russia who's to blame, could it?

That's typical response. Now please tell me why the security concerns of these countries has to be respected and Russia's security concerns don't?

>Just like Russia is midwifing crises and elections actoss Europe and countries like Georgia and Azerbaijan

Russia has never supported any coups in Europe or in Georgia and Azerbaijan.

[0] https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...

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> Pro-Western Ukrainian president submitted request to join NATO in 2008 and the NATO response was positive.

I wonder where it came from [0][1].

> That's typical response. Now please tell me why the security concerns of these countries has to be respected and Russia's security concerns don't?

World superpower (according to Russians themselves) has security concerns about checks notes Ukraine, Baltics, Georgia, Poland, Finland. Seems about right, judging by how war in Ukraine goes.

> Russia has never supported any coups in Europe or in Georgia and Azerbaijan.

My fucking eyes, lmao.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia#...

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005%E2%80%932006_Russia%E2%80...

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