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I once worked in a government agency where 4 employees used a app that on ran on IE6. So the rest of the 2000 strong organization had to use chrome by remote desktop into a server.

Decision tree: Does any department still use IE6? Yes -> lets setup a Remote Desktop cluster so the rest can use Chrome

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The short of it is: no one gives a shit about anything but their own paycheck and getting off of work at 5pm.

It's the human condition (and also in part the companies' own fault since they stopped investing in employees)

The people who give a shit and are passionate eventually join the other 99.9%, because it's absolutely exhausting pulling the cart with 10 freeloaders on it who don't care.

I envy the people who can give a shit for longer than 2-3 years at any given job. I suppose being your own boss is one of the few ways to stay passionate and care about something for a long enough period of time.

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I do!

I border collied these people into a room and the issue is now fixed.

The system still sucks but 2000 field engineers got 10 min of their days back.

A few weeks later the Scrum Master of the PWA team gave an inspiring talk about it at a conference.

Personally you couldn't torture out of me that my app was so bad for so long, but yeah.

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Interesting...I happen to have a border collie and their ability to get things done their way simply by looking at humans is...uncanny.

I will have to think of things like this where can save 5-10 min on something program-wide.

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You border collied them? I’ve noticed a real turn towards aggressive disrespect in this community. It’s really gross and it doesn’t make you look smart. They’re humans have some respect and don’t be so toxic. You don’t have to dehumanize your coworkers. This is basic.
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I see a fun metaphor for doing the tedious work of arranging a meeting, getting people to join, and getting a solution. Reading it put this way made my day a little brighter. I needed that, too.

Btw, border collies are awesome dogs, and sheep are also awesome. I find no automatic disrespect in using them as stand-ins for our human foibles; intent matters.

GP, please don't be discouraged.

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One of my first real experiences with Border Collies was at a family reunion. There were a bunch of kids running around playing in the park. At one point someone showed up with a border collie and I watched with delight and amazement as the dog did the herding thing and slowly and carefully pushed the group of children closer together. The kids didn't even realize it until they were way too close to each other to comfortably play tag. The owner called the dog back and the games continued.

Later on I ended up with a sheltie with a very strong herding instinct. She mostly just acted like the Fun Police though with the other dog and cats. Lovely creatures!

Herding sheep is such an interesting experience too. The best way I can describe it is that each sheep has a really large soap bubble around them. You need to push gently on the bubble to get them to go where you want them too. If you push too hard and the bubble pops, they'll scatter and you have to step back and let the bubble reform.

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Imagine the pearl clutching if he’d used the “herding cats” metaphor.
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Not much a fan of metaphor? I personally appreciated the way they described about getting (corralling? shepherding? herding? Lots of common animal husbandry expressions in English) all the relevant humans together.
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English is full of animal-based metaphors, and that's a pretty innocuous statement. "I herded everyone into a room" does not automatically imply that one perceives those people as animals.
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in this analogy, it is OP who is the dog.
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I think the choice of breed has meaning. The border collie is the smartest breed of dog, and its origin is in herding sheep. Calling your coworkers sheep isn't particularly nice. Calling yourself the smartest breed of dog isn't particularly humble. That's why the person you're replying to objects.
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Ridiculous. We should be calling people out for being performatively offended. It reduces the impact and gravitas of situations where real offense is given that should be considered.

I have herded cats, sorted sheep, and wrangled cattle all throughout my career. I can come up with more that are quite accurate to the situation.

And I've been the cat, sheep, and cattle likely more than I have been on the other side.

It's simply part of working with groups of humans. We become dumb in groups and lend ourselves towards herd behavior. It often requires someone tending to us to break us of the habit.

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This is some really tortured logic to find something to get offended about.

> Calling yourself the smartest breed of dog isn't particularly humble

Surely “smart as a border collie” is not a high bar for a human.

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That's probably reading too much into the metaphor. I think it's apropos because regardless of whether the others are smart or not, we all have blind sides, and in order to get things done that need to be done you have to apply pressure in the right way to overcome a certain amount of group inertia. Those things still fit with the metaphor without necessarily being disrespectful.
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I have a relative that has a border collie and the thing has got to have the dog version of Down syndrome.

This dog does the worst job of being a dog that I’ve ever seen.

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They should stop acting so much like sheep then.
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they did not call their coworkers sheep, though.

a border collie can nip the heels of humans just as well.

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There's absolutely nothing wrong with the word picture that was used. I'd advise against assuming the worst possible interpretation of someone else's words (especially online). Most of us probably do that at least sometimes (present company included), but it would be much better to give people the benefit of the doubt. In this case, I think it is fair to assume that the original poster was just saying that he wouldn't let them try to get away and not actually deal with the problem -- much as a border collie prevents other animals from straying from the group, keeping them where they need to be.

There is no need to assume that they meant that the others in the meeting were less important or less intelligent, or whatever. They were, perhaps, just less interested in dealing with the problem.

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'corralled' better for you?

And yeah I did that. It wasn't even my app. Or my team. Or my field engineers.

I was just fucking ashamed of our entire IT department and thus took it upon me to fix this.

It was the first time the PM had ever spoken to a field engineer, I think.

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I guess we’ve worked at different places.
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It’s a problem of motivation. Now, if I work my ass off and Initech ships a few extra units, I don't see another dime. So where's the motivation? And here's another thing, Bob. I have eight different bosses right now!
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> I suppose being your own boss is one of the few ways to stay passionate and care about something for a long enough period of time.

I run a business and the passion is still hard to maintain. On Friday one of my customers cussed me out for 20 mins because I took a few hours to respond. That was a tough way to start the weekend.

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Believe it or not, there exist places where 50% or more give a shit.

I'm sure at Apple under Jobs, the % would've been very high. It will have dropped significantly by now.

You're absolutely right on a country-scale though.

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It gets worse. In my company the least competent people care the most.
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This is like a perfect case study in how problems don't get solved, they just get… routed
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Liars gonna lie.

> I challenged him on this by Googling the Intune manual to set the default browser.

I've found that LLMs really democratize debate when issues like this arise!

Can't guarantee you'll win, but when someone bets you're not willing to RTFM to call their bluff-- Oh boy!

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It's funny that you're replying with a recommendation to use LLMs when the parent comment is about how a search engine worked just fine.
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If I google a question like that these days I'm likely to get an LLM response as the first result. The line is definitely blurred
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The irony isn't lost on me, either.

Googling does result with a Gemini/AI response at the top.

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that's why you set &udm=14 in the search URL config...
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I’m so tired of the “nothing ever happens” crowd. Y’all are absolutely exhausting and add nothing positive to the conversation. Assuming everyone on the internet is lying makes as little sense as assuming nobody on the internet is lying.

Edit: I guess I misunderstood the parent (look in the replies). I hate the phenomenon I’m describing so I’ll leave the comment but I don’t want to besmirch caminante’s good name!

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Are you replying to the intended comment?

The parent said they were getting stonewalled by a colleague over a T/F. Maybe you're assuming I called the parent a liar...?

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Yeah. I think your comment is being misunderstood.
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I blame me ;-). Though, one haywire reply can taint everyone's interpretation!
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Thanks for the heads up! I’ve edited my comment to absolve you of any crime. :-P
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Not offended. Try to have a 'better' day.
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This is an odd level of aggression. Life is too short.
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What do you propose instead?

edit: Nevermind. You shared your thoughts in a later comment above, dismissing the HN forum as vindictive.

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life is too short to spend it drowning in misinformation. Calling someone out on a technical failure is 100% legit. How is it "aggressive" if they're clearly wrong?
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Life is too short for liars.
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