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by throwa3562627 hours ago |
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upvoteby taeric6 hours ago|
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Fundamentally, I think you are driving at a legitimate complaint and it should be a concern with Apple products.

The direct answer, though, is largely one of execution. Microsoft isn't just pushing this heavily. They are doing so poorly.

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upvoteby zadikian4 hours ago|
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Mac doesn't require an Apple ID to use. iPhone only needs one for installing apps, and my only complaint is it's the strictest auth check on the entire phone besides disabling the account. Shouldn't need to input the Apple ID password just to install a free app, shouldn't even ask for passcode.
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upvoteby taeric3 hours ago|
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Setting up an iPad was rather obnoxious on this front, though. So, fundamentally, it is still very similar.
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upvoteby dpark6 hours ago|
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Apple does not tie the local account to the cloud account the same way. On a Mac you create a local account and you can (and almost certainly will) create a cloud account to link to it. But they are separate accounts. In fact I’m pretty sure Apple blocks you from setting the passwords the same on both, presumably with the intent of reminding you that they are not the same entity.
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upvoteby SirMaster6 hours ago|
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But what about our phones? Why are people so OK with an online account for their phone or tablet but not laptop?
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upvoteby dpark5 hours ago|
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I don’t entirely know. It’s not something that especially bothers me.

I will say that I think the forced linking has encouraged other unpleasant behavior like the profile folder hijacking to OneDrive. I rather like having this stuff in OneDrive. I do not like that it is pushed so aggressively. “We moved all your stuff to OneDrive. You need to subscribe so we don’t delete it.” This feels hostile. So some of the distaste with logins tied to the cloud is probably more about the surrounding ecosystem.

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upvoteby varenc4 hours ago|
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An Apple account also isn't required on an iPhone. They certainly encourage you create or link one on device setup, but it's not required to use the phone. Though one IS required to download apps, so you could argue it functionally is required.
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upvoteby voxl5 hours ago|
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How would the answer to this question illuminate your understanding? People using windows at their job also don't care. "Caring" does not need to be consistent across a group of people.
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upvoteby dpark5 hours ago|
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What kind of answer is this? This seems condescending and literally provides no answer.

Why even post this?

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upvoteby voxl3 hours ago|
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You read what you want into the message, but have you considered turning your own perspective onto your own post?
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upvoteby Jare6 hours ago|
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I don't recall macos forcing it. They definitely over-suggest it and the ecosystem (especially for dev) is very full of it and I consider that a problem, but it's limited in scope. If you don't want the Apple ecosystem, as far as I know you never need an AppleID.
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upvoteby nananana96 hours ago|
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I had to make one to download Xcode from the store. I couldn' figure out a way around it, but admittedly I have about 4 hours of macos experience.
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upvoteby Jare6 hours ago|
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Yes, I was bunching up Xcode with "Apple ecosystem". I presume you can get clang/gcc without AppleID (but haven't actually done it myself), and for sure many other dev tools.

I'd definitely much prefer if even for "ecosystem" the companies would not require online account except where truly necessary (purchases?), but for operating the OS itself, I do feel there's a line in the sand where online account requirement = no.

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upvoteby my1234 hours ago|
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Xcode needs an Apple ID for download but the macOS SDK and toolchain does not.

Try to run any developer tool or "xcode-select install" and it'll download the command-line tools independently from Xcode.

(and then bring your own IDE)

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upvoteby yearolinuxdsktp4 hours ago|
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It’s impossible to install XCode without an Apple account. It’s only distributed through the Mac App Store, and downloads from Mac App Store require an Apple ID. And even XCode beta downloads are locked behind an Apple login.

You can install XCode CLI dev tools without an Apple account, which comes with clang and swift for example. With this, you can build most Mac software, but I don’t think you can run Swift tests without a full XCode.

As the sibling comment notes, you can install GCC/llvm and whatever other open source tools and build Mac software without full XCode.

You can also install Apple container support without an Apple account.

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upvoteby zadikian4 hours ago|
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Xcode is also available as a standalone download from developer.apple.com, which requires an account too, but at least it's way more reliable than downloading from the store.
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upvoteby pier255 hours ago|
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you can totally use macOS without an Apple account
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upvoteby wvenable6 hours ago|
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Apple is a hardware company -- their software exists to support their hardware.

Microsoft is a cloud provider now -- their software exists to support their cloud business.

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upvoteby 7 hours ago|
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upvoteby ubermonkey6 hours ago|
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The key difference is that you do not need an Apple account to use a Mac.

Most people DO use one, though, because that's how you access the iCloud services that underpin the Apple ecosystem. But it's not MANDATORY.

My understanding is that you cannot even log into a Windows machine without an MSFT account. That's a big difference.

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upvoteby KaiMagnus6 hours ago|
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Also people probably have more of a problem with MS accounts because they don’t really have an ecosystem that provides clear value.

An Apple account together with an iPhone and MacBook let’s you share clipboard, passwords, notes etc., a no brainer.

Windows laptop and iPhone? I guess an Apple account still is more useful here too, actually. So the average user does not really need an MS account, hence the annoyance.

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upvoteby spogbiper3 hours ago|
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If you own more than one computer, the microsoft account syncs your desktop contents and other parts of the environment.. desktop background is one I've noticed. That can be nice
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upvoteby spogbiper3 hours ago|
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You certainly can log into a Windows machine without a microsoft account. It's actually still quite common in businesses that you log in with an account managed by your organization, although this is changing as more and more businesses migrate to MS Entra ID. This still isn't exactly a "microsoft account" but its similar.

You can also still log in with a completely local account as well. It takes a few extra minutes to set up but once configured it works fine.

The system is full of dark patterns and roadblocks that steer users towards an MS account, but you don't have to use one.

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upvoteby kstrauser7 hours ago|
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How do you mean?
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upvoteby Supermancho6 hours ago|
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people remember creating an Apple Account login and using it on their laptop, but don't understand that it's connected in fundamentally different ways.

The answer is: Because the Apple Login is not calling out for every service, including login.

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upvoteby kstrauser6 hours ago|
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I also think that's what they meant. Alternatively, the person could've been asking why Apple hasn't made the same boneheaded mistake as MS. I wasn't sure how to interpret their question to know how to answer it.
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