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points

by WalterBright4 hours ago |

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by emil-lp4 hours ago|

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I'm teaching programming and algorithms at uni. Only blackboard.

by osmsucks4 hours ago|

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In my university, probably because the CS department at the time was an underfunded offshoot of the faculty of Mathematics, we basically didn't have access to computers (and I didn't have a laptop of my own).

We did almost everything on paper, even exams. I admit writing MIPS assembly on paper seemed strange to me at the time, but the effort you put in to put things black on white somehow made the knowledge stick into my mind more effectively. Some of that knowledge will stay with me forever, and I'm not sure the same could be said if I had taken "shortcuts".

by WalterBright3 hours ago|

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I used to write code in a spiral notebook when I didn't have access to a computer. It was also hard to code on a computer in those days when the output device was an ASR-33, or a screen was 24x80.

by groby_b4 hours ago|

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> When studying, going over the notes, you'll hear the lecture again in your head.

That is a) a BS claim and b) wouldn't be a feature, on average, given the quality of college lectures.

It seems fairly clear that manual note taking help with learning, over using a computer, but overblown claims like this do more damage than good in convincing people to do the right thing.

by downut4 hours ago|

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This is hilarious. This comment would imply that the people who got multiple degrees and were very successful through their careers (that would be everybody in my generation: we started in 1980) learning from lecturers scribbling with chalk on a blackboard, writing it all down with pen on paper, somehow had a less effective education than modern students using modern tools. Yeah, looks all around, remembers training youngs, no, I don't think so... Actually sometimes it was bad because people, but sometimes it was fucking awesome. I lectured undergrad mathematics at UF and ASU using chalk and a blackboard and to this day that was some of the most enjoyable experiences of my life. Especially for the upper division classes, my students paid attention. They asked questions. It was glorious.

by groby_b1 hours ago|

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That's not what I said.

I'm absolutely supportive of using blackboards & paper and pen over computers.

What I'm saying is that making unsubstantiated claims like "you'll hear the lecture again when you read it" is completely detrimental to making that point, because it's entirely unsubstantiated and doesn't make any relevant point you couldn't make in a well-supported way instead.

by WalterBright20 minutes ago|

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The relevant part is it filled in the missing parts of my notes. The prof says more than what he writes.

by WalterBright3 hours ago|

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> a BS claim

It worked for me. Have you tried it?

> given the quality of college lectures

I attended a university where that wasn't a problem. Prof Daniel Goodstein, for example, turned his lectures into a video series "The Mechanical Universe". But, frankly, I liked his in-person lectures using the blackboard and chalk better.

by groby_b1 hours ago|

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> It worked for me. Have you tried it?

I have. It doesn't work that way for me - but that hardly matters. More importantly, there's plenty of research around inner monologue and sensory replay also pointing out that this isn't true for most people.

> I attended a university where that wasn't a problem.

You were blessed :)

> But, frankly, I liked his in-person lectures using the blackboard and chalk better.

That's not something I'm arguing against :) I think they're a great teaching tool.

My objection is that making a specious but unsupported, and often easily anecdotally invalidated point to support a case that's actually got a ton of solid evidence in support is detrimental to making that case.

Physical note taking, and being actually present for a lecture are tremendously important. Laptops are hugely problematic for learning. And those points are important enough that we should make solid arguments in favor of them, not easily discredited ones. Because we also know that many students are very muched biased to discarding these points given half a chance.

There's currently a related post on the home page: "Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)"