I'm not saying I'm for those over open source licenses in general, but Prusa brought up some fair questions when discussing the OCL. Essentially: define "personal use." Have I violated a non-commercial license if I print this keyboard and then use it to build someone a website? Does CC-NC mean a Prusacaster -- or any guitar knob with such a license for that matter -- is strictly barred from being taken on tour? Or used to record albums that are then sold? (And I say "guitar" knob, but I'm choosing an example a little consciously that could exist in any variety of controls, instrument and otherwise.)
Where are the lines of that when it's physical things? How far downstream does that go if it isn't CC-NC-SA in particular?
I'm not really sure that Creative Commons had the idea of physical production in mind, given that it dates back to a time when we were more broadly talking about digital piracy, and I honestly haven't kept up with its evolution much in more recent years. But maybe it just doesn't make the same sense for designs of physical things, for comparable reasons to why it wouldn't make sense for code -- and, conversely, open source projects that opt to use CC licenses for assets.
(None of this would stop me from attempting to build/mod one for fun, mind you. It just raises what a more averse person might call risks, and what I will at least call curiosities.)
The automotive aftermarket has largely settled that; even without the original design files, it's perfectly legal to make compatible parts, patents and the like notwithstanding. You can build an entire "small block Chevy" engine wholly from parts that GM did not make, and it will fit perfectly in a car that originally had the "genuine" one.
IANAL but as long as you don't violate any patents they have (if any) nor use their trademark, feel free to make and sell keyboards that look like theirs (not that a keyboard of their design is particularly distinctive anyway.)
Now, what is interesting is if someone were to blatantly violate the license and start manufacturing commercial keyboards. I believe their only recourse would be to revoke their license of the design files, and then it would be copyright infringement. The thing is, I don't know how copyright law would handle any damages.
I don't know if making a physical product could be a violation of copyright, regardless of if you had a license to use the design in the first place. I could definitely imagine a company trying to enforce this, and a judge throwing it out because it should have been handled with patents.
Again, not a lawyer, just speculating on a forum.
What if I take the design, print it, include the thing in a staged photo, and sell prints of the photo?
What if I skip the printing and use the design files as a basis for a rendered photo or animation?
What if I print the design, then use a 3D scanner to recreate a file from the physical artifact?
> What if I take the design, print it, include the thing in a staged photo, and sell prints of the photo?
Probably fair use, provided the design wasn't the main focus of the photo, but merely part of the "set dressing."
> What if I skip the printing and use the design files as a basis for a rendered photo or animation?
> What if I print the design, then use a 3D scanner to recreate a file from the physical artifact?
Those questions are simpler - both scenarios would be derivative works of the original files, so covered by the license.
If the design files qualify for copyright protections, then modifications to them would clearly be derivative works.
I don't think it is clear if the keyboard itself would be a derivative work, as it almost certainly can't be protected by copyright. This is what patents are for.
The design files don't qualify for copyright protections, they describe the design which (maybe) qualifies for copyright protections.[0]
The artistic design of a specific keyboard can certainly be copyrighted, but not the functional nature of it.
[0]The exact wording might be protected, but not the factual information contained. Sports scores, or say measurements of a keyboard, are not copyrightable items as they are just facts, though their presentation might be.
This is probably acceptable
> What if I skip the printing and use the design files as a basis for a rendered photo or animation?
This is probably NOT acceptable
> What if I print the design, then use a 3D scanner to recreate a file from the physical artifact?
If you used that for personal things yes that would be acceptable. I do not think that would give you the right to then sell that as a product neither digitally nor phsically
Hmm, without patents it would definitely be fine to scan an existing one and recreate it. I think this would be fine too, but any time you are clearly going out of your way to skirt the law is a red flag. The thing is, I don't even think technical designs are copyrightable outside of their aesthetic value.
What if I take the design, print it, include the thing in a staged photo, and sell prints of the photo?
What if I skip the printing and use the design files as a basis for a rendered photo or animation?
If it is indeed covered by copyright, then these would likely be violations, though I guess it depends on how prominent it is in the staged photo.
...this stuff is fun to think about.
Keychron is a keyboard/mouse company. It is VERY reasonable to interpret "non-commercial use" as meaning "don't sell mice/keyboards built or derived from these designs."
NOT "we are going to sue you if a 3D-printed copy of our mouse ends up in the background shot of your movie," or similar contrived madness.
- If it’s a company doing an NC license, probably best to be careful because they can make your life hell with lawyers.
- If it’s a random joe doing an NC license, feel free to ignore it because they don’t have the money to defend it anyway. Especially so if it’s CC-BY-NC-ND, people that pick that one are especially likely to be in the all-bark-no-bite category.
At least that’s how one of the companies I worked for treated CC licenses… I don’t work there anymore.
I have stuck with the System76 Launch keyboard but I basically always consider Keychron first when looking.
1 - Longer battery life (I have a bluetooth + plug-in model). The battery life is crazy-low, even when not in use and the lights are turned off. I keep it plugged in all the time, as a result. I don't really get why it can't last, idle, about as long as a game controller does (many weeks! And those don't have much space for batteries).
2 - No light pattern button. That thing exists only to accidentally hit and switch it away from "gently and evenly lit" which is one of the very-few non-insane patterns available. Brush it by accident, there goes a minute or so of your time getting it back to something that's not trying to look like a disco ball. And it's right on the corner, so you will hit it by accident when moving the keyboard around or reaching for something just past it. Easily my least-favorite thing about the board, despite how bad the next item is.
3 - Mine has a kind of tray-design around the edge, resulting in about a 1/8" lip, that looks very cheap to assemble (so that's nice, lower price) but means it collects EVERYTHING out of the air and is a pain in the ass to clean. It also makes it look kinda like someone's 3D printed hobby project. Like it's an ugly keyboard, both because of the design and because it's visibly collecting dust and hair just a few days after its last keys-removed full cleaning.
A full list of key combinations for the K3 (which I have) is at https://www.keychron.uk/blogs/news/k3-key-combinations - alter the url to suit your model, but most of them appear to be the same.
It’s a godsend, all I want is dim-ish blue lights, but I’d keep coming back to it doing rainbow patterns and flashes that I’m sure some people love but I find really distracting.
I have a Keychron that I love. I have a jar full of replacement switches, so I suspect that I won’t need to get a new keyboard, anytime soon.
I have an Apple Touch ID keyboard, that I use only for Touch ID. I don’t like it, otherwise. I’ve always wondered why Apple doesn’t ship (or license) a simple standalone Touch ID pad. They could probably get a decent premium for it.
That said, like a lot of open-source libraries, I appreciate the gesture, but will likely always use the built product. It’s just that hardware has a habit of “aging out,” so this is a way to ensure that a legacy product can remain viable, even after discontinuation.
I wonder how suitable these CAD files would be for either CNCing or resin-printing a translucent fruit-colored plastic case for a different flavor of retro. That'd be really cool.
It's insanely compact for a 96% board.
I've been using a narrow keyboard and ergonomic mouse for 2 weeks, and my shoulder pain is starting to go away.
I put a number pad on the left and it's much easier to key in numbers with my left hand instead of using my mouse with my left hand.
I’m a happy user of their keyboards.
> This project is source-available. Personal and educational use is allowed, and commercial use is allowed for compatible accessories. You may not copy and sell Keychron keyboards or mice [...].
More companies should do what they do - the less ethical players are already cloning knockoffs anyways, stuff like this builds brand loyalty and probably makes it more likely that people stick with Keychron over going for the knockoffs.
But there seems to be no stores like this? So... is everyone ordering keys and keyboards, returning them, trying others, etc.? I know there are key switch samplers... is that it?
Thanks
Central EU here. We order a bunch of switches. A "starter pack" of sorts. We try them and then choose the favourite.
Physical shops rarely stock keyboards with removable switches.
Definitely a some-areas-issue.
i live in the largest city on the west coast of the USA and the only stores i've found where i can press keyboards is Office Depot and the like, and at least in the stores that i have visited, they have not had mechanicals.
even when Frys was around, i don't remember them having keyboards out and about.
Frys predated the "mainstream" mechanical keyboard boom. If they were still around I'm sure they'd have even more (they were always larger stores).
The Fry’s that shut down was a shell of its former shelf.
If you’re in LA, Microcenter has mechanical keyboards.
They also have a whole rotating robotic wall of 3D filament that works like a physical jukebox.
My solution is to buy a mech keyboard from some well respected vendor and try it out. I return the vast majority.
yeah, that's what'd I want!
Note that in the area are quite a few other good shops. Tsukumo has various hardware across many floors and also keyboards, in b1 they also have a razer store. Then there is a shop across the street Galleria or something, more targeting esports, if you are into that.
That being said, the shop is located in a surprisingly quiet area, surrounded by other small enthusiast shops. I especially liked "High Beam" a few stores down, which specialises in handheld PCs.
but it definitely feels limited when compared with all of the options available online (that probably applies to most things)
there's a specialized store in Brooklyn for modular synths [0] - obviously they don't stock every module but still... I'd assume that a keyboard store would be... popular? maybe? haha
(((((((((should I start a keyboard store ahaha - I swear this was not market research)))))))
It's pretty wild the degree to which our lives and economy depend on cheap shipping/trucking. Why have a store when a truck can deliver a 100g trinket for someone three States over.
Delivery is actually more resource-efficient if the store isn't within walking distance of its customers. If instead of making 10 people get in their car and make a round trip to the store/warehouse, you put 10 packages in one vehicle and deliver to everyone in the same neighborhood with one trip, you're looking at an order of 90% less wasted emissions.
Tell me you’re in the US without telling me you’re in the US :)
Three states over and back would be a day or two minimum, but potentially nearly a week on the west coast. (Depends on start and stop locations obviously, but if you start from eg Portland, three states over could be the Dakotas).
Edit: Turns out, sadly, had one: https://geekboards.de/blogs/news/were-closing-our-berlin-sho...
I played around with different mechanical switches for a bit, getting a few switch testers and hemming and hawing about which would be my chosen one. Honestly most all of it will be better than your typical $20 rubber dome dell e-waste. I got a Leopold keyboard with tactile mx clears as my first “real” keyboard and it was definitely an improvement and enjoyed it for a few years.
However after my final xbox gamepad once again started getting stick drift, I moved one with Hall effect sticks (gamesir). It was so much better that it resulted in me wanting to try a hall effect keyboard with more customizability. Took a chance with a Keydous NJ98-CP V3 HE (pale green) because it was well reviewed and priced well enough to take a risk on. I love it so much I got my sister one.
It turns out what I truly loved about old IBM beamspring switches wasn’t so much the click, but the smoothness. Typical mechanical linear switches with electrical contacts feel scratchy to me which I find repellent. Oddly enough, having a tactile bump to overcome somehow hides that. But a lubed Hall effect switch is as low friction as you can get and I love them. It’s literally fun to type on, and works great for gaming. As a bonus, it’s pretty quiet too, making it less obnoxious for others to be around.
You’ll need to adjust the activation point to prevent accidental activation when resting your hands, but that’s basically it as far as doing things differently.
As a side note, my mouse is a keychron M5, a “vertical” mouse, which works quite well and supports the higher polling rates I’m looking for. Also highly recommended if you need to give your tendons a break. Personally I think Razer has slightly better algorithms for smoothing and accurately translating my movement intentions, but this is only something I notice when “playing” Excel, and it’s not enough that ergonomics don’t easily win out.
Then it’s a matter of choosing the style, so yes, many simply collect keyboards of their favorite switch type - and often don’t even return the ones they don’t use.
The elites don’t want you to know this but the keyboards are not free you can take them home I have 458 keyboards.
One of the fun type mix the various key switches to have different feel and different locations (easier/lighter switches at the edges for example).
any idea when the next one will be?
In an ideal world we could have something along the lines of a ca. 2002 era Fry's Electronics in size and concept of broad selection of products. But you'd need something the size of the largest Costco to have a really full array of every type of electronic gadget/product that's available online, and as we know, Fry's went famously bankrupt...
I'm sorry, I hate to be that guy, but while STEP files are often used as the final export to the contract manufacturer to cut the molds, or for some level of fit checking, they're not used for anything else. The real engineering that you can actually learn from is in the SolidWorks (or equivalent) part files, and you'll note that they're not offering those.
ISO-10303-21;
HEADER;
FILE_DESCRIPTION((''),'2;1');
FILE_NAME('DIGAI_1_1_1_1_1_1_1','2025-01-07T11:51:29',('\X2\7B26836394A6\X0\'),(
''),'CREO PARAMETRIC BY PTC INC, 2022073','CREO PARAMETRIC BY PTC INC, 2022073',
'');
FILE_SCHEMA(('CONFIG_CONTROL_DESIGN'));
ENDSEC;I wanted to use it but it has one fatal flaw - the backlighting is unusable.
The keys it comes with are decent, but opaque, so the backlight doesn't actually illuminate the keys. And if you get shine-through keycaps, the LEDs are mounted below the center of the key instead of above, and you don't get good illumination.
sigh.
I used to use topre realforce rgb, then tried keychron, now use steelseries apex pro exclusively.
if they could fix it, giving me illuminated shine-through keys, I would go back to stay.
Then, on my newer K6 the battery turned into what reddit affectionately calls a "spicy pillow." The keys warped convex around the bulged battery and equivalently bulged out the back plastic. That's why you can't put metal back there. I quickly brought it to my nearest battery recycling center. I could've just removed the battery, but I also enjoy having my face in one piece
I’ve got 2 ortholinears (home and work), and a compact for another machine.
Is any or them dies, instabuying another Keychron!
PS: IF you’re listening, PLEASE release a split wireless ortholinear
These projects get shared on HN sometimes and it doesn't fit with the hacker ethos overall. Everyone wants to yell the cool part aloud, but mutter the asterisks and license language that takes power away from a would be tinkerer underneath their breath.
It could actually be marketed in a decent way, like saying if our company ever goes under you'll have these designs and the license to do anything you want with them. Even a conditional license like that would have more value.
As it stands this is a neat thing that some people can use and disregard the license that wants to hamstring you into doing free research and development for a company that produces a product that they tell you not to make.
I find linear switches make my hands hurt because they don't have a clear activation point and I end up pressing too hard. Cherry MX Brown switches and equivalent are a sweet spot for me. I also liked the lost-to-history white ALPS switches on the Apple Extended Keyboard II
It can be a dangerous rabbit hole if you let it, but if you're just looking for an approximation of the Model M but that requires less force, then something with "Brown" switches might be up your alley. This one in particular has a similar aesthetic, comes with Brown switches as an option, and at a pretty good price.
https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-c2-pro-8k-qmk-via...
- It's way, way too heavy. Heavier than my Northgate Omnikey Ultra. Like it's more adept as an improvised weapon as much as any keyboard ever was.
- Didn't come with all black enter and escape caps (they were red orange), requiring purchasing an expensive complete replacement set.
Minor areas for improvement:
~ Battery life could be better.
~ Charging takes a long time and I'm unsure if there's a charge finished indicator.
~ Would be nice to have an offline flash update & macro programmer to not depend on cloud-based software that will eventually evaporate like everything else.
I do like:
+ Replaceability of switches as I've tried a bunch, settling on Kailh Box White V2.
+ RGB effects can be turned off completely or show a solid color at low brightness.
+ Native USB proprietary wireless dongle, BT with 3 profiles, or wired.
+ Wired or wireless connection while charging.
+ PC vs. Mac layout as a physical switch.
But not launcher.