As immigrants with no local network, having kids is basically putting yourself under house arrest for a decade or so. You can post bail (pay a babysitter) for occasional reprieve. I mean sure you can go do outings with kids, but for most of them, do you really want to? I know mine aren't particularly enthralled by trips to the Rijksmuseum.
replyI don't think this is how humans usually raised kids...
We're in the same boat. Feels like mostly our society doesn't value having children - it's by and large not a very well supported activity. Even more so if you don't have immediate family to help support you.
replyWhere’d you go? We were told Ireland values children but that didn’t match our experience (we moved to the Netherlands which has been better at least)
replyDont go to Switzerland. I can sing praise on this country for hours, but supporting families with kids aint one of the positives, in contrary.
replySo far the worst aspect of being and staying here (apart from one specific immigration bureaucrat in Geneva, but thats a long and very specific story). Even rather backwardish France has this aspect figured out much better.
If you go to the third world kids are all running in the streets while both parents work and grandparents not doing fuck all to watch them either. The most practical answer is to relax negligence laws back to a sane level where as long as you're not torturing them and they are fed, "society" stays the fuck out of the punishment process.
replyI’d rather they not get run over… but generally agree with you
replyThere is no nuclear family required anymore,
replyMy parents are the village, and the village is the law.
This is why people critique the nuclear family—the degenerate village around the children that just consists of the parents, maybe grandparents at holidays. It’s a recipe for overworked adults.
replyI've got a Mexican American friend that lives multi-generationally and loves it. He's a few years out of high school with a good job in management and a nice car, money in the bank. His older brother gets help parenting from Tio and the grandparents, and generally everyone gets along well. He's almost kept up with me in savings for property and I'm married (our pay is pretty similar, but I have dual income). American culture optimizes for wastefulness and puts too much of an emphasis on independence, especially when arrangements like this exist that actually can lead to greater individual freedom in the long run.
reply> and generally everyone gets along well
replyThat's a very important statement
I couldn't live with my grandma and couldn't live with my mom anymore. I needed space.