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Ah, slopper is hilarious. Too long has the title of builder just been an excuse to make dog shit UI and excusing yourself. If you're going to build user-facing tools, good UI/UX is a requirement not an option. Couldn't imagine this excuse flying in any other industry. Yeah I just made a chair where all 4 legs are different lengths and the back rest is in the middle of the seat, "I'm just more of a builder"
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Would you like to attempt a more good faith interpretation on what I meant, and address that (you can even imagine doing this in front a user/client and iterating in minutes with them, ultimately getting even better outcomes), instead of inventing the most un-generous interpretation of what I said, that I'm just adding AI slop?
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The obvious bad faith part of your argument is assuming that it's "low quality output." Another is using a blanket negative and dismissive term like slopper, without taking a chance to actually see the work output (at least in my case).

You also clearly misread what I said. I didn't say I spent 5 minutes prompting an LLM. I say the ability to get FEEDBACK (a revision) in 5 minutes is amazing. And I stand by that. That allows me to do 20 more revisions and do in a couple of hours what would take two weeks.

You seem to be romanticizing the concept of grunt work – that for something to have value or be of good quality, you have to put in some sort of minimum amount of time on it, and it has to be tedious. It's the same concept that nobody can make a good quality piece of furniture unless they used a hand saw and spoke sweet nothings to the tree before it was cut.

There are ways to do things quicker while preserving quality. I had already left a caveat saying that for the 5% of people that really want to push web design forward, totally, go ahead. But for the rest of us (including those of us who have lived and breathed code and engineering principles for decades), these tools are phenomenal for iterating quickly.

Anyway, the term builder is more about separating the goals from a vanilla "programmer" - even though i've programmed my whole life, it's always been in service of an outcome. And the outcome is almost never "good code for the sake of good code" - it has to serve a real outcome in the real world.

By the way, lots of good designers are also using coding agents now, so you can keep romanticizing grunt work while most of the market moves on.

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> But for the other 95% of people, being able to just say "ok can you make it look more modern" and have 4 variants in 5 mins, (like me) Figma will lose users like me.

Perhaps this phrasing is what invited the interpretation you seem to be annoyed with.

There is not much to gain by suggesting everyone is simply bad faith.

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No the bad faith part comes from assuming that the output is low quality, and that just because I get _feedback_ in five minutes (read again what I said) it somehow implies that I spent 5 minutes on it and then moved on, never to revisit.

I think you like the other person is assuming that 5 minutes = low quality. Instead of thinking "5 mins means you can make 8-10 iterations in an hour" or "5 minutes making the front end look pretty good means I can spend more time on the backend"

There are many good faith ways to interpret this.

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There are many ways to interpret this, yes. I only mean to disrupt the framing you keep asserting of good and bad faith, I'm still not sure I understand what you are getting at.

No one is assuming the output is strictly low quality from what I can tell. I am personally evaluating the method you provided, which suggested you are championing a sloppy but highly iterative design flow against a seasoned curated suite for defining design. I dont see any reason to assume the other comment was doing anything otherwise.

You made a broad generalized strong claim and were met with the opposing force, which is actually acting from their own understanding of good faith, believe it or not (see how this analysis is void of meaning?).

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