upvote
I don’t miss multi week debugging sessions.

Having a tool that instantly searches through the first 50 pages of google and comes up with a reasonable solution is just speeding up what I would have done manually anyways.

Would I have learned more about (and around) the system I‘m building? Absolutely. I just prefer making my system work over anything else, so I don’t mind losing that.

reply
The multi week debugging sessions weren't fun, but that doesn't mean they weren't valuable and important and a growth and learning opportunity that we now will no longer experience.
reply
Seems like there's a good argument to be made that we'll have plenty of opportunities for valuable growth and learning, just about different things. Just like it's always been with technology. The machine does some of the stuff I used to do so now I do some different stuff.
reply
IMO the more salient point is that bugs requiring multiple weeks of human work aren't going away! Claude has actually not been trained on, say, a mystifying and still poorly-explained Java concurrency bug I experienced in 2012, which cost a customer $150,000. Now in 2026 we have language-side tooling that mitigates that bug and Claude can actually help a lot with the rewrite. But we certainly don't have language tooling around the mysterious (but now perfectly well-explained) bug I experienced in 2017 around daylight saving's time and power industry peak/off-peak hours. I guess I haven't asked, but I can almost guarantee Claude would be no help there whatsoever.

Just so many confusing things go wrong in real-world software, and it is asinine to think that Mythos finding a ton of convoluted memory errors in legacy native code means we've solved debugging. People should pay more attention to the conclusion of "Claude builds a C compiler" - eventually it wasn't able to make further progress, the code was too convoluted and the AI wasn't smart enough. What if that happens at your company in 2027, and all the devs are too atrophied to solve the problem themselves?

I don't think we're "doomed" like some anti-AI folks. But I think a lot of companies - potentially even Anthropic! - are going to collapse very quickly under LLM-assisted technical debt.

reply
Geez you guys need to spend some time in orgs where your paycheck is depends on getting the bugs fixed and deployed. If your direct deposit happens whether you deliver or not then you’re missing the most valuable career lesson of all.
reply
deleted
reply
But oh my god, do you remember how good it felt to finally fix it?

The euphoria I felt after fixing bugs that I stayed up late working on is like nothing else.

reply
Debugging code is fun for the same reason hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is: It feels really good when you stop.
reply
If I told someone I spent a week debugging a problem these days I think I would get laughed out of the call. Even a day might hit somw chuckles.

If you cant fix the bug just slop some code over it so its more hidden.

This is all gonna be fascinating in 5-10 years.

reply
This really does feel like a mass hysteria event. Bizarre to have to live through it.
reply
This does depend on who you are; If you're a senior with 10+ years of experience, it's a failure of your abilities to cut your losses or know when to seek help if you take far too long debugging something.

But for juniors, it's invaluable experience. And as a field we're already seeing problems resulting from the new generations of juniors being taught with modern web development, whose complexity is very obstructing of debugging.

reply
There are definitely situations where you can't ask for help and you can't turn your back on the bug.

I worked on a project that depended on an open source but deprecated/unmaintained Linux kernel module that we used for customers running RHEL[1]. There were a number of serious bugs causing panics that we encountered, but only for certain customers with high VFS workloads. I spent days to a week+ on each one, reading kernel code, writing userland utilities to repro the problem, and finally committing fixes to the module. I was the only one on the team up to the task.

We couldn't tell the customers to upgrade, we couldn't write an alternative module in a reasonable timeframe, and they paid us a lot of money, so I did what I had to do.

I'm sure there are lots of other examples like this out there.

[1] Known for its use of ancient kernels with 10000 patches hand-picked by Red Hat. At least at the time (5-10 years ago).

reply
Thank you for injecting some perspective into the thread of AI hysteria. I feel like everyone is imagining a bug in a CRUD app.
reply
> LLMs are absolutely causing us to lose something very important

The time wasted thinking our craft matters more than solving real world problems?

The amount of ceremony we're giving bugs here is insane.

Paraphrasing some of y'all,

> "I don't have to spend a day stepping through with a debugger hoping to repro"

THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM!

We're turning sand into magic, making the universe come alive. It's as if we just got electricity and the internet and some of us are still reminiscing about whale blubber smells and chemical extraction of kerosene.

The job is to deliver value. Not miss how hard it used to be and how much time we wasted finding obscure cache invalidation bugs.

Only algorithms and data structures are pure. Your business logic does not deserve the same reverence. It will not live forever - it's ephemeral, to solve a problem for now. In a hundred years, we'll have all new code. So stop worrying and embrace the tools and the speed up.

reply
> The time wasted thinking our craft matters more than solving real world problems?

This is both a strawman and a false dichotomy.

reply
I mean to cause a stir! Let me invoke every logical fallacy and dirty rhetorical device I can if it draws attention.

Too many of our engineering conversations are dominated by veneration of the old. Let me be hyperbolic so that I can interrupt your train of thought and say this:

We're starting to live in the future.

Let go of your old assumptions. Maybe they still matter, but it's also likely some of them will change.

The old ways of doing things should be put under scrutiny.

In ten years we might be writing in new languages that are better suited for LLMs to manipulate. Frameworks and libraries and languages we use today might get tossed out the door.

All energy devoted to the old way of doing things is perhaps malinvested into a temporary state of affairs. Don't over-index on that.

reply
deleted
reply
Please keep this slop off HN
reply
And if I were your boss you would immediately be fired if you spent weeks trying to debug an issue a junior developer solved just by launching Claude and telling it the symptoms of the issue because you refused to use an LLM.
reply