upvote
>Thank god the EU standardized on USB-C

Short term thinking, if anyone invents a significantly better connector the eu will lag a decade while they clear the red tape, it hampers innovation inside the bloc people who might otherwise be concocting their own improved connector.

reply
(1) The EU fundamentally didn't care which standard so long as there was one; they only forced this because Apple dragged their feet with their own proprietary thing that wasn't a significant advantage. The other end of Apple's Lightning port being a USB port does not suggest it added anything except deliberate incompatibility.

(2) what would "significantly better" even look like? USB-C can do 120 watts, enough to fill a 20 Wh battery in 10 minutes, except the batteries themselves aren't ready to charge that fast.

(3) if someone somehow manages to make a significant advance, nothing prevents them from having two ports. Or indeed lobbying for a law change on the basis of a tangible thing they can demonstrate rather than a hypothetical that still hasn't happened in all the time since these discussions began.

reply
The same Europeans that were miles ahead with their GSM standard?

We can compare that to the US. Here, we stayed stuck with power-thirsty analog phones for many years before bouncing through a litany of mutually-incompatible digital non-standards...and finally landed on the ~same actual-standards that Europe adopted.

I think they'll be OK. (I think the rest of us will be OK, too.)

reply
With that attitude, we’d still be using D-sub connectors.
reply
I assume OP thinks more like me: the EU will move to the next standard in a reasonable amount of time after it's available.

I'll be the first to complain if the new standard isn't adopted in due time, but as a strong example I'm still very content with how the GSM legislation standard has played out.

reply
[flagged]
reply
This is fully on Apple themselves. USB consortium asked apple to use lightning for what became USB-C, but Apple didn't want to give up the ecosystem control.
reply
What does that have to do with the EU requiring everyone to use the USB-C connector?

The EU could have made a different decision. Or not got itself involved.

reply
You're aware the maker of the lightning connector helped produce the USB-C standard in the same year they created lightning?

> The design for the USB‑C connector was initially developed in 2012 by Apple Inc., with the help of Intel, HP Inc., Microsoft, and the USB Implementers Forum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB-C

reply
So?
reply
USB-C is rated for 10,000 connections, while Lightning is rated for 40,000. Except if you disconnect and reconnect your phone 4 times a day every day of every year you own it, 10,000 is enough for just under 7 years. And Lighting was introduced in 2012, while USB-C was 2014. In those days, the average lifespan of a smartphone was 2.5 years. Even today, the software is only supported for 7 years at most. You don't need a connector that's going to last nearly 30 years.

And the additional durability of Lightning is itself not free. It's not cheaper than USB-C. Quite the opposite. That additional cost means that it either uses more resources to manufacture, or more resources to make the tools to manufacture. So, it's just wasteful. Lightning is "physically superior" but USB-C is better engineering.

Apple knows that. So Apple chose to go with Lightning because it was theirs, not because it was better. Because it's not really better. Not better for the customer. Or really better for business. Apple chose vendor lock-in.

Worse than that, Apple's connectors are higher durability, but their cabling itself is awful. I work at a K-12 and we were in an iPad and Chromebook pilot back in the mid 2010s that ran about 4-5 years. We had a fleet of 3500 of each. The iPads saw less than half the usage hours as the Chromebooks, but had something like triple the incidence of cable replacement. The cable insulation splits. The plasticizers degrade, the cables get really sticky or oily, and then they split and expose the braided grounding sheath. That braided cable will shock you. That was true for both student and staff devices. So they had these wonderful connectors, but the cables still failed at effectively five or six times the rate of the alternative. And since they were proprietary, you couldn't just buy a better cable made by someone else! You had to buy the same cable that you knew was going to fail!

reply
> And since they were proprietary, you couldn't just buy a better cable made by someone else! You had to buy the same cable that you knew was going to fail!

Godswallop! Aftermarket Lightning cables were readily available shortly after Apple first use the the port.

Agreed though, their own Apple branded cables that came with the device are terrible, and I always just threw them straight in the bin.

And connection cycles is the wrong metric for USB-C vs Lightning. The correct metric is how many and how much side-force removals can the port withstand.

My experience shows that for USB-C the answer is wildly insufficient whereas for Lightning it’s sufficiently high enough that it won’t be a concern.

reply
IMX, the third party cables are fine... If you're interested only ever doing slow charging with about half of them. They were real bad when we tried them.
reply
It’s a weird comment.

Like yeah, Apple helped design the USB-C connector and preferred something else.

Thereby only reinforcing my point.

reply
[flagged]
reply
[flagged]
reply
What does any deity have to do with it? Btw, has anyone done a post mortem analysis of that mandate? I wonder if it delivered what it promised. I doubt it:

All they saved consumers from is buying a 5 dollar replacement cable.

The EU certainly hasn't done such an assessment yet.

The predicted savings of a quarter billion Euro come mostly from unbundling chargers, which they could have forced down customers throats without also making technical mandates about how customers are allowed to charge.

reply
Unbundling charger without standardizing the connectors would result in every manufacturer using their own proprietary bespoke charging connectors. Which is exactly what the situation was before usb was made mandatory.

How much cool aid do you have to drink to genuinely believe the corporate argument that using proprietary connectors is "innovative"?

reply
> Unbundling charger without standardizing the connectors would result in every manufacturer using their own proprietary bespoke charging connectors. Which is exactly what the situation was before usb was made mandatory.

Eh, no? USB-C was already pretty much the standard before, and you could plug in lightning cable with a cheap adapter cable.

reply
Not even that.

Consumers still need to buy replacement cables, because they break.

And the USB-C cable end connector is a fragile piece of shit designed by committee and forced upon everyone buy another committee, neither of which must’ve had a single mechanic engineer even once walk passed their bike shed.

Future historians will do a postmortem on the EU and discover the USB-C enforcement act as an inflection point that marked the downer trend to the EU’s eventual collapse, and the reclamation of its land and people to the great nation of Russia, where it always belonged.

Or some other equally as dreadful outcome befitting the UBS-C Bike Shed & Enforcement Committee formerly know as the European Union.

reply
I don't understand your issue with USB C. Mini and micro USB connectors routinely got loose and fell out of multiple devices I owned, USB C is everywhere now and I have not encountered such issues.
reply
The Lighnting connector and its port are superior in every way.
reply
Physically, maybe. (I don't know.) Legally and economically, I don't think Samsung can just use lightning without having to pay Apple.
reply
Without the EU mandate, perhaps I would still have a Lightning port in my instead of the currently broken USB-C port.

I never had a Lightning port fail.

reply
Good on you!

I just wish that all of them would be legal, and consumer like you be allowed to pick what they like best.

reply
> Not even that. > > Consumers still need to buy replacement cables, because they break. > > And the USB-C cable end connector is a fragile piece of shit designed by committee and forced upon everyone buy another committee, neither of which must’ve had a single mechanic engineer even once walk passed their bike shed.

Well, the USB committee did ask Apple for the superior connector, but for whatever reason they said no. So we're stuck with this.

OTOH, USB-C is not nearly as bad as your bizarre post would seem to imply. It could be better, but as we know from experience with things like micro-USB, it could be much, much worse.

> Future historians will do a postmortem on the EU and discover the USB-C enforcement act as an inflection point that marked the downer trend to the EU’s eventual collapse, and the reclamation of its land and people to the great nation of Russia, where it always belonged. > > Or some other equally as dreadful outcome befitting the UBS-C Bike Shed & Enforcement Committee formerly know as the European Union.

Russia can't even handle Ukraine, a country significantly smaller in population, economy, and land area than Russia. And you think that they could take on the EU‽ A block, mind you, which has more population and a significantly larger economy. Oh, also nukes.

And you think that the EU would fall in this case because of... USB-C? Please explain the mechanism which would lead to this situation.

reply
> Well, the USB committee did ask Apple for the superior connector, but for whatever reason they said no. So we're stuck with this.

They didn't need to ban all other connectors..

reply
Well good thing is that they didn't. The only thing you need is to provide a USB-C port for charging. Nothing stops a manufacturer adding additional ports for charging, data sharing etc.

So Apple could give people the ability to use their oh-so-superior Lightning cable while also being able to use USB-C for charging. If nothing else, it means that there are no longer any "does anyone have an iPhone charger" discussions at parties because people can just charge all their phones with USB-C.

reply
> Well good thing is that they didn't. The only thing you need is to provide a USB-C port for charging. Nothing stops a manufacturer adding additional ports for charging, data sharing etc.

That's a bit silly. There's only so much space in eg a phone.

reply
Apple switched to USB C years before legal standardization took place.

(actually, which single-vendor connector are we mourning, here? I forget.)

reply
Yes, Apple switched to USB-C for some of their stuff.

So I'm not quite so sure why the EU needed to outlaw alternative chargers.

reply
On one hand: It does seem a bit late to regulate that.

On the other hand: I used to work with a briefcase full of different phone cables, when the people that paid me had the swell idea to offer the service of transferring phone books between dumb phones and nobody agreed on how the connectors should be shaped. I think the number of them was >40. Some of them even looked identical in shape, but were not identical in function. Some were USB. Some were serial, with different voltages. Some used two data wires for serial comms, some used only one.

I was very pleased when we stopped doing that and I got to get rid of that stuff.

I'm also pleased that someone is making assurances that we won't go back to that way of doing things.

It's OK to have a common standard, and to stick with it. (It's also OK to draft a new standard when the old one turns old-and-busted somehow.)

reply
I don't mind USB-C. Most of my devices have USB-C charging, and it works well.

I mind bureaucrats locking that in.

> Future historians will do a postmortem on the EU and discover the USB-C enforcement act as an inflection point that marked the downer trend to the EU’s eventual collapse, and the reclamation of its land and people to the great nation of Russia, where it always belonged.

Haha, what? I like to complain about this piece of legislation, but it's not that important. And it's not like Russia has better policy. Oh, just the opposite. (Like waging wars they can't win, or running crazy high corruption.)

reply
Thanks for decontextualising that paragraph by not including the following paragraph.

I really appreciate it, keep up with the good work.

Bloody Clippers.

You always got to watch out for the Clippers, they’ll take whatever you say or write and clip it out of context and make it mean something completely different to what you really said.

The European Union will fall to Russia while they're looking for a USB-C charge cable that works, or looking for a charged swappable battery for their MANPADs.

reply
There’s nothing important in the last paragraph.
reply
> Thanks for decontextualising that paragraph by not including the following paragraph.

Eh, you know that people can just scroll up?

> The European Union will fall to Russia while they're looking for a USB-C charge cable that works, or looking for a charged swappable battery for their MANPADs.

Are you willing to bet on this?

reply