I might be willing to pay more, maybe a lot more, for a higher subscription than claude max 20x, but the only thing higher is pay per token and i really dont like products that make me have to be that minutely aware of my usage, especially when it has unpredictability to it. I think there's a reason most telecoms went away from per minute or especially per MB charging. Even per GB, as they often now offer X GB, and im ok with that on phone but much less so on computer because of the unpredictability of a software update size.
replyKinda like when restaurants make me pay for ketchup or a takeaway box, i get annoyed, just increase the compiled price.
Token anxiety is real mental overhead.
replyThat doesn’t make sense to pay more for cache warming. Your session for the most part is already persisted. Why would it be reasonable to pay again to continue where you left off at any time in the future?
replyBecause it significantly increases actual costs for Anthropic.
replyIf they ignored this then all users who don’t do this much would have to subsidize the people who do.
I’m coming at this as a complete Claude amateur, but caching for any other service is an optimisation for the company and transparent for the user. I don’t think I’ve ever used a service and thought “oh there’s a cache miss. Gotta be careful”.
replyI completely agree that it’s infeasible for them to cache for long periods of time, but they need to surface that information in the tools so that we can make informed decisions.
That is because LLM KV caching is not like caches you are used to (see my other comments, but it's 10s of GB per request and involves internal LLM state that must live on or be moved onto a GPU and much of the cost is in moving all that data around). It cannot be made transparent for the user because the bandwidth costs are too large a fraction of unit economics for Anthropic to absorb, so they have to be surfaced to the user in pricing and usage limits. The alternative is a situation where users whose clients use the cache efficiently end up dramatically subsidizing users who use it inefficiently, and I don't think that's a good solution at all. I'd much rather this be surfaced to users as it is with all commercial LLM apis.
replyThink of it like this: Anthropic has to keep a full virtual machine running just for you. How long should it idle there taking resources when you only pay a static monthly fee and not hourly?
replyThey have a limited number of resources and can’t keep everyone’s VM running forever.
Genuine question: is the cost to keep a persistent warmed cache for sessions idling for hours/days not significant when done for hundreds of thousands of users? Wouldn’t it pose a resource constraint on Anthropic at some point?
replyRelated question, is it at all feasible to store cache locally to offload memory costs and then send it over the wire when needed?
replyNo, the cache is a few GB large for most usual context sizes. It depends on model architecture, but if you take Gemma 4 31B at 256K context length, it takes 11.6GB of cache
replynote: I picked the values from a blog and they may be innacurate, but in pretty much all model the KV cache is very large, it's probably even larger in Claude.
Yesterday I was playing around with Gemma4 26B A4B with a 3 bit quant and sizing it for my 16GB 9070XT:
reply Total VRAM: 16GB
Model: ~12GB
128k context size: ~3.9GB
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replySure, it wouldn’t make sense if they only had one customer to serve :)
replyExactly, even in the throes of today's wacky economic tides, storage is still cheap. Write the model state immediately after the N context messages in cache to disk and reload without extra inference on the context tokens themselves. If every customer did this for ~3 conversations per user you still would only need a small fraction of a typical datacenter to house the drives necessary. The bottleneck becomes architecture/topology and the speed of your buses, which are problems that have been contended with for decades now, not inference time on GPUs.
replyThis has nothing to do with the cost of storage. Surprisingly, you are not better informed than Anthropic on the subject of serving AI inference models.
replyA sibling comment explains: