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This is an important point with biometrics that most people don't realize. When I say that biometrics aren't good security, most people are perplexed because they have seen movies and such that are high-tech where iris scans or fingerprints are the pinnacle of security.

I like to tell them this story that I read somewhere a decade or so ago. It might not be a true story (I never checked) but it's a helpful way of thinking about it.

Bob landed a great job and decided to celebrate by buying a new luxury car (a BMW in my recollection, but could be wrong) that had a thumbprint authentication for unlocking and for starting it, so you never have to carry external keys. One day a thief decided to steal Bob's car. They broke in to his house and tied him up. When they demanded the keys and he said there weren't any, they decided to cut off his thumb and use it as the key. Now Bob has no thumb and his car still got stolen.

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The story I remember is French police units specifically launching focused investigation on the sudden explosion of crypto people / family members getting kidnapped and having a finger or more chopped off.

I did find your story from 2005 about a man having his finger chopped off once the thieves realized they would need his appendage every time in order to start the car2.

https://news.sky.com/story/french-police-investigating-serie...

[2] https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18624943-600-finger-c...

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> biometrics aren't passwords. You can't rotate your voice.

"My voice is my passport. Verify me."

I have to renew my passport every 10 years or so. How do I do that with my voice? I guess it's time to take some vocal lessons.

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Reminds me of the Interrail data breach [https://stateofsurveillance.org/news/eurail-data-breach-3080...]

The fediverse take on that was "customers are advised to rotate their faces and birthdays."

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Vocal lessons are both a lot of fun and a lot of work. I haven't been using any voiceprint systems but I know most humans are unable to tell that my trained voice is the same physical person as my old voice. Would be curious to find out if an AI voiceprint system can discern whether it's the same or not.
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You’ll really like this then, it’s a clip of Phil Hendrie who I recently discovered. He does tons of voices and sound effects, his studio has multiple microphone and switches between them for different speakers.

Here is a clip of him when someone called his studio thinking they were the local Pizza Hut. Phil does all the other voices, including the phone system.

https://share.google/QHNkgsOdvGj7tapfk

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Are you talking about singing lessons, or actual talking training? Singing lessons helped me sing but didn't change the way i talked at all, but i was only able to afford them for a summer so maybe it takes more time than that
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When I was in NYC a while back, I met a woman at a friend's dinner party. She sounded totally American, but was in fact Brazilian. She worked as a lawyer, and said that she'd had to get extensive voice training in order to sound American so that people would take her more seriously professionally. I have no idea if the professional part worked, but the accent, mannerisms etc was amazing - I would never have guessed.
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I'm referring to speaking, not singing. After a _lot_ of work, I can speak passably as a woman or man and switch freely between the two. Depending on context I generally choose just one for the entire conversation, as switching tends to cause whiplash in the listener (^_^).
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Does the f0 change? Or is it like power distribution of harmonics change? Or is it something else?
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More or less everything changes. For trans men who are on HRT the voice's lowest pitch will get lower, as it would for someone AMAB going through puberty (since a second puberty is literally what's happening on HRT). Trans women do not get any voice changes from HRT though, so they train to raise their larynx when speaking to get up into the "perceived female range."

But pitch is far from the only thing that someone gendered one way or another in western culture (and presumably elsewhere). Resonance, weight, breathing patterns, word choice, and prosody all matter too. That's way too much to go into in a post here on HN, but the easiest one to understand is resonance or "size." Female-perceived speakers have higher resonance / smaller size. This means that some of the higher harmonics are amplified more than the lower harmonics, an it's called a "small size" because the actual resonating area from the larynx to the tongue is made smaller (mostly through tongue placement). Male-perceived speakers do the opposite, creating a larger space for resonance and resulting in a lowered resonance.

I know quite a few cis people who are also going through some of this training to help with their voice acting, or even just for fun.

There are a lot of good (and unfortunately some bad) resources online for trans voice training in both directions. My personal favorite (and where I started my lessons) is Seattle Voice Labs, but Online Vocal Coach / Vox Nova is also a great resource.

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I'm curious as to what prompted you to pursue this ability.
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I'm trans.

The ability to switch mid-sentence is mostly just something I discovered I can do and is fun. But the ability to pass as my real gender is something that helps me feel safe. And when needed, being able to occasionally pass as my prior gender (e.g., when calling my bank until I can change my name/gender legally), it also quite useful.

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There is a common enough need for this for some
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I always answer my likely spam calls in a weird high pitched fake voice just in case.
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>> "My voice is my passport. Verify me."

Well met, fellow Uplinker!!

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>Well met, fellow Uplinker!!

I'm pretty sure this person worked at Playtronics.

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Biometrics are "what you are", not "what you know" or "what you have".

Voice fingeprinting is essentially useless because it is easily recorded and reproduced.

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I have been telling people for years that biometrics (face, fingerprint, voice) is your username, not your password. But people are easily swayed by convenience.
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If your user name is tattooed on your forehead, yes.
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just take up smoking heavily
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Easier to inhale an undisclosed amount of helium before recording your password voice
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I recommend sulfur hexafluoride for something harder to replicate. Nothing like making hackers risk their life to impersonate you
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Or skip the half measures and go straight for the dioxygen diflouride.

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-wor...

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Excellent idea!

Do you need to calibrate it to be able to repeat it, and does that calibration change if you are at a different altitude and in different conditions, such as humidity?

Does merely changing altitude (or ambient pressure) change voice enough to be considered different by a recognition or synthesizing system?

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Despite popular belief, even heavy smoking does not alter your voice in a significant way.
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Do you have a source for that? I can tell with pretty good accuracy whether my students smoke from their voices (adult language learners, we take smoke breaks together and they have no reason to conceal it), and would be very surprised if I’m just that lucky and there’s nothing a person can pick up on acoustically.
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20 years of heavy smoking :)

Although it does seem to affect some people more than others for sure, I guess it depends how and what you're smoking.

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Despite popular belief, even heavy smoking does not alter your voice in a significant way.

I guess you don't listen to Sinatra.

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Or John Mellencamp, who repeatedly states in interviews that he likes what smoking does to his singing voice.
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Depends on what you're smoking
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and mostly how.
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Source: it came to me in a dream.
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There's this myth (that came to you in pop culture) that you end up sounding like Tom Waits.

In reality, some phlegm aside, their voice is still the same in any way that matters.

If you knew people who didn't smoke and started (not uncommon in the 80s and 90s, quite a few people I know started smoking in university, or after the stress of a first job, some even later), and also the inverse, you can trivially hear it for yourself.

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My voice is exactly the same as before I started smoking heavily, and I have never had any of the associated problems that most people seem to have (lung capacity, stamina, infections, phlegm etc) - pot luck I guess, like most things
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Smoke 40 cigarettes a day, your voice will be unrecognisable in no time
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Also: it’s not just the first order smoking, respiratory issues, increased chance of illness, and chronic coughing can damage your voices presentation.
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> Now 40k people have learned that biometrics aren't passwords. You can't rotate your voice.

The problem is that even if you know that, you still get bombarded by banking apps promising "biometrics are more secure than passwords, switch now!"

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You can rotate your voice with substantial effort. Just speak differently: higher or lower pitch, a different accent. Your friends may look at you funny for the first few years.
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I doubt 1% of the 40k will learn anything.

also this took me way too long to realize it had nothing to do with warhammer.

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> Now 40k people have learned that biometrics aren't passwords. You can't rotate your voice.

Voices aren't strong.

There just aren't that many unique characteristic parameters behind a voice - it's largely dictated by an evolutionary shared shared larynx and vocal tract. They aren't fingerprints.

The fact that human voice impersonation is not only widely possible but popular should give you an indication of this. Prosody, intonation, range, etc. - it's all flexible and can be learned and duplicated.

The signals are simple too, because we have to encode and decode them quickly. You may or may not be able to picture and rotate an apple tree in your head, but you can easily read this sentence in the voice of David Attenborough.

Moreover, you can easily fine tune a voice model to fit any other speaker. You can store the unique speaker embeddings in a very thin layer. Zero and few shot unseen sampling can even come close to full reproduction. You can measure this all quantitatively.

Voices are not, and never have been, fingerprints. They're just not that unique.

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This comment is pure LLM.

I feel like we're right on the threshold where we give up and start interacting with slop like it's human written.

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What makes you think that comment is LLM?
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An LLM comment from an AI booster. How poetic.
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