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This is something I’ve long believed to be true and important to understand, yet rarely see anybody else argue, so it makes me happy to read. I think of it like the kissing noise we make to make a pet come. You could call it the truth or a lie depending on what the pet is expecting and whether you then do it, but both judgements miss what actually happened: it didn’t even occur to us to think about whether it’s “true”, we just made that noise because we expected it to produce the desired behavior. CEOs and politicians are usually like this with humans.
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The kissing noise analogy is spot on! Made me smile
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There is a thin layer of high functioning sociopath at the top of all human social structures. Never trust anyone who wants to lead at that level. You have more in common with a colossal squid at the bottom of the deepest trench than you do with that kind of human.
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Or as Douglas said, "on no account should we ever let anyone who wants to be president, be president"
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Nah. People are just more adaptable to their circumstances than you think.

Something I think about from time to time is sacking during war, where soldiers are allowed to do as they please with a conquered civilian population. If I applied your same reasoning, I'd have to conclude that on average there's a great number of people who are not committing atrocities just because of the fear of repercussions. What I think happens is that getting desensitized to violence and being constantly made to make violent decisions makes anymore more likely to commit a violent act that they never would have otherwise. It doesn't need a special kind of brain, it just needs special circumstances.

Same for anyone in a position of power, except it's shamelessly lying and making decisions that affect hundreds or thousands of people, instead of direct violence.

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There are lots of soldiers that don't rape and pillage when afforded the option to. There are plenty of good leaders who aren't sociopaths, it's just a career limiting feature.

There are, in fact, a substantial proportion of us that aren't doing horrible things because they are comfortable enough that risking that comfort is worse than what they would gain.

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>There are lots of soldiers that don't rape and pillage when afforded the option to.

Sure, but you don't get stuff like the rape of Nanking from just a few handfuls of lunatics. It can't be simply explained as "oh, armies are just manned by 80% psychopaths, even after drafts". There's something about the extremeness of the situation that pushes an otherwise normal person towards abnormal behavior, even while some of his comrades refrain from engaging in such acts.

>There are, in fact, a substantial proportion of us that aren't doing horrible things because they are comfortable enough that risking that comfort is worse than what they would gain.

It's easy to say that without having gone through those experiences (either as a soldier or as a CEO).

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>It's easy to say that without having gone through those experiences (either as a soldier or as a CEO).

I'm not sure what part of what I said is even remotely controversial. We see it literally every time the guardrails of society are relaxed and the typical social contract breaks down.

We are, as a species, riding the ragged edge of shit-slinging simian collapse. Humans were designed to exist in tribes of between 7 and 100 or so people. Any more than that relies of abstractions and heirarchy. The further up that heirarchy you go the less your world looks like the only expected human experience that our brains were designed for.

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Ah, reading it again, I realize I misunderstood your meaning. Disregard my previous response to that sentence. Let me try that again:

>There are, in fact, a substantial proportion of us that aren't doing horrible things because they are comfortable enough that risking that comfort is worse than what they would gain.

That sounds like you're saying that most people don't "do horrible things" out of a utilitarian calculus (which, to some extent, I would agree with, depending what we include on that "horrible things" set), which would mean CEOs are acting just like normal people, except put in an unusual situation. But how do you reconcile that with your earlier statement that CEOs are sociopaths who are more dissimilar from normal folk than giant squids? Or did I change your mind already?

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Not the OP but I'd wager to say that while many (and maybe most?) people are limited in their potential violent tendencies by basic human norms that only break down in times of crisis, sociopathic CEOs constantly test and break these norms whenever there is even a slight upside.
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Exactly this. Words are cheap these days, people do say various things to further their goals. Days where leaders stood by their words as sort of moral testament of their character are gone, probably for good.

As we see many people will do or say just about anything to get more money, prestige or power.

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For now but not for good. Neglecting moral character works as a shortcut for maybe a generation or two. But that path leads to destruction and decay eventually. It can't last.
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Thank you. Agreed. There are some practical limits to that path. It works in the current ecosystem partially because the resulting degradation is slow, but it is built upon societal trust. Once it is gone, it will be rather painful to restore. A new new deal will be needed, so to speak ( political evocation is accidental, but it is too late for me to coherently rewrite ).
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Hard men create good times. Good times create soft men. Soft men create hard times.
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There were never any days where leaders stood by their words.

People have always used lies as tools to maintain their power whether it is the Roman Empire or 21st century AI companies. It is just human nature.

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So what is the best system to get people to be invested in the general welfare of all people? What are we supposed to do?
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Your question seems to imply that people have to be corralled towards a specific action, which to me comes across as rather cynical.

Why is it not possible to lay out your arguments honestly and let people decide on the merits?

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I think, part of the issue is that, as a mass of humans, we tend to be rather dumb. And they certainly don't decide on merits, in aggregate. It is somewhat questionable if they decide on merits even as individuals ( unless we expand the definition somewhat ). But it is possible I got too cynical.
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It's a paradox: on the one hand, if we were dumb en masse, it's hard to see how we could have developed so far technologically and cultivated such complex societies.

On the other: I have to agree with you, there is too much of a pattern of bewildering behaviour not to.

I think what irks me is this idea that deceiving people to push them towards a specific outcome is a reliable and sound strategy, when we've seen many instances of it having the opposite effect.

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Some problems don't have solutions.
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This one does though. These issues are solely created by humans, so of course humans can solve them, that's not even a question. People who care need to keep speaking up and reaching out to each other, get together; and by doing so expose the people who don't care, or actively are against the general welfare of humans, like rocks on the beach when the tide recedes.

It takes so much work, so much criminal energy, so much money and campaigns, to divide people. Whereas the opposite, people getting to know each other and working together, happens "by itself" all the time, for the most banal of reasons. Just give them some time and space together; no lobbying required, no bribes or blackmail, no psy-ops; just our innate desire to live and let live.

Humans who prey on humans are sick, it's as simple as that. Humans who don't want to stand up to humans who prey on humans may not be sick, but they're not our best, that's for sure, and they must not be our gatekeepers or our compass.

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People getting to know each and working together to genocide another group of people that's slightly different from them does indeed have many precedents in history.

The problem with your idea is that you see "humans" as some kind of abstract unified whole. People care about their peers far more than they do about "humans" in the abstract. When you're a powerful venture capitalist, these peers are other venture capitalists for example. Some call this "class consciousness".

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> The problem with your idea is that you see "humans" as some kind of abstract unified whole.

No, I don't, which greatly goes together with that not following from anything I said. I simply care about humans that are not predators way more than predators.

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Your assessment lines up with the assessment of the people who know Sam personally.

https://archive.ph/20260414023627/https://www.newyorker.com/...

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I think doublespeak is more along the lines of calling ads a "product recommendation strategy". This was either a) a plain lie b) they're actually at their last resort.
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> This was either a) a plain lie b) they're actually at their last resort.

That's thinking like a normal honest human :-) My point is that it was likely not a statement about reality (true or false) at all, but rather a phrase designed to elicit some response in the listener, such as the idea: 'Sam Altman isn't the kind of CEO who would put ads in his products unless he really had to'.

He's not describing how things are, but how he wants you to think about them.

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> He's not describing how things are, but how he wants you to think about them.

That is what a lie is. The fact that some people think he exists in a different plane of existence from normal humans does not change the meaning of “lie”.

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Hold on, doesn’t he think ads aren’t cool, assuming he watched the movie The Social Network years ago?

Sam Altman wants you to believe he doesn’t like ads. Sam Altman wants you to believe ads are a last resort for him. Sam is losing money. Sam reached his last resort option.

(PS - just quoted from https://sfstandard.com/pacific-standard-time/2026/04/15/sam-... in another comment)

So he is allegedly reported to be very dishonest but I wonder if the ad claim is a good example.

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> That is what a lie is.

I don't think that is, because, at the time, he probably haven't decided one way or another. I think about it like the Schrodinger's cat. If Schrodinger's said "I think the cat is dead" and you went ahead and opened the box and found the cat alive, would Schrodinger have lied?

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I mean, I get that you are trying to make a subtle point but this:

> He's not describing how things are, but how he wants you to think about them.

is just a fancy way to describe lies. I'm not even sure if it specifies some interesting subset of lies, I think it's just the plain definition.

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Oh I think there's a big difference. One is clever, manipulative, meant to control or coerce, possibly to facilitate long term strategic goals. The other could be a simple immediate denial of fact to avoid blame. I think the personality and capabilities of the person in the former case is more concerning.
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There's nothing clever about being asked "are you going to do X?" and replying "I would only do X under extreme circumstances" when you know it's not true. It's just lying. You know if you tell the truth it will sway the other person's opinion of you right now, whereas if you tell a lie it will only eventually sway that person's opinion, if at all. Telling such a lie requires the exact same reasoning as denying responsibility for something you know you did. Both cases just require the motivation to delay an undesirable outcome.
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I don't want to split hairs but I posit there is a difference because 'how I want you to think about things' could be a mixture of lies, truths, and half-truths.

'Lying', to me, implies some relationship with reality - I'm lying if I know there's no orange in my bag but I tell you that there is. What we're talking about is someone who might not know or care whether the orange or even the bag exists at all, and is just saying things to get some specific response out of the audience. The deception or not is irrelevant really.

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I don't think you're making a useful point about the situation.

In the case of the orange in the bag, both Altman and his interlocutor can see the bag and the truth can be exposed by rummaging.

In the case of ads in the oAI chat feed, at the time Altman made the comment he was probably planning to puts ads in the feed. But there might not even be emails about this, just conversation. And the engineers might not solve the "how" for a while... so there's nothing to rummage for.

However, in both cases Altman wants you to think something other than what's on his mind. There's an orange in his bag, but he wants you to think there is not. There's going to be ads because he owes the investors a tonne of money but he wants you to think it wont happen, or wont happen soon, or will be "nice" ads...

The distinction is in the nature of the underlying truth, not in Altmans words or actions in the moment. In the moment, in both cases, he's lying.

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Yes - that specific point was not about this situation but a pattern of behaviour.
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Feels like the harm of "at last resort" lie is more harmful than the benefit of "is being honest" for him.
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Will ads harm ChatGPT subscription growth or enterprise use? If both, maybe ads are a last resort and completely necessary?

(Maybe consumers and businesses are fine having their slop tainted. Or mostly.)

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I agree with your point. Mine was about the word doublespeak for this, which I think it's not - it's a lie in effect, but I think it is something like what you say, for which I don't know a term of. A bunch of sentences that are said in a complete disregard for truths and untruths; instead they are supposed to get you to believe something.

This also kinda fits the profile of Altman that I'm getting from what I have seen - admittedly without looking in-depth. A person who is on surface a pathological liar, but in fact in a closer look he just says things. They just _happen_ to be complete lies, because that's what you need to do to achieve the goal in the set of circumstances. It's just that because it's as morally objectionable as outright lying, some people would pause and think before doing it, while he seems to just have no qualms at all.

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Ah, got it. Maybe 'gaslighting' cuts more to the point?
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The word I have heard is "bullshitting". Lies at least orient themselves with regard to the truth, bullshit floats free
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I think gaslighting is more sinister and deliberate, but it's in a similar spectrum of manipulative behavior. Perhaps, as his statements are less filled with the style of Musk's bravado on topic of FSD, and they feel overall mid, I can propose MID: Manipulative-Impulsive Disorder?
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That's how I shall think of it from now on ^^
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> I would tend to think of someone like him as a person who uses words to achieve a specific goal, rather than someone who speaks whatever is truly on their mind. Whether those words are lies or truth or somewhere in between is irrelevant; what matters to them is the outcome.

I wouldn't put Sam on some kind of pedestal, everyone seems to talk this way nowadays.

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> "But Sam Altman said..." to me has about as much value as "ChatGPT told me...".

Or Trump. Same profile.

There is something to be admired in this kind of people. They are not bound by their own words. It simply doesn't matter to them what they said a month ago, or a minute ago.

Their words are attached to the instant they are pronounced; they don't concern the future, or the past. They die immediately after they have been said. It's amazing to watch.

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For certain values of 'admired'... It is impressive, in a diabolical way, and seems to be very effective.
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Its might makes right.. as a individual.. as a boolean bully..
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Altman must be much more strategic and calculated in his communication than Trump who just kind of blurts out whatever.
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>a person who uses words to achieve a specific goal

“I can’t change my personality.”

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Super great analogy!
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Sam Altman is trying to out-huckster Elon Musk.

Remember when Sam said he needed $7 trillion? https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/sam-altman-seeks-trillions-of-do...

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> No, I suspect that "I kind of think of ads as a last resort" was doublespeak for "ads are coming eventually".

I don't think so. Resorting to ads is an obvious step but one that profoundly degrades the credibility of the whole service. It's a pyrrhic monetization strategy, and one that's pulled when all other options failed. It's a kin to scraping the bottom of the barrel to extract the remaining bits of value left.

The reason why the statement was "I kind of think of ads as a last resort" is clearly because they were a last resort move. And here they are.

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