They are professional security researchers, they must know this is the way it is done in the ecosystem.
Kicking the can around leads nowhere.
It’s certainly a thing some people do. But there is not a unified consensus on how to handle vulnerabilities. Different security researchers (or, in fact, the same researchers releasing different findings) can and do take many different courses of action.
“30 days should be enough time” why? Why is 30 days a magic number? Especially in open source.
Yeah it isn’t the researchers problem to tell every distributor of the kernel about the fix or verify that everyone has the fix, but fuck maybe wait until at least someone has the fix and maybe don’t drop it on a Friday. That is just malicious
And they dropped it on a Wednesday.
The kernel devs patched the kernel. The kernel devs have a pretty known, straightforward stance in how they ship fixes for anything, because anything in the kernel can be a security problem.
Distro maintainers can see kernel changes. Some distros aggressively track new changes. Others backport what they feel are relevant. Others don’t do either.
Users pick what distro they use, and how they set up their infra.
Maybe if I were paying for RHEL licenses I’d be eyeballing the money I pay and RHEL’s response time.
But the ownership here lies with system operators, who pick their infrastructure, who design their security model, and who build their operational workflows. This vuln is a great example: people who looked at shared untrusted workloads on a single kernel and said “Hell no” had a much calmer day than teams who thought that was a good idea.
In terms of something actionable, and maybe someone more well versed in how the distros work can tell me why this is a bad idea, but shouldn't there be a documented process and channel for critical CVE's to be bubbled out to distro maintainers who then have some sort of SLA for patching them and sending them downstream to end users? Perhaps incentives are not aligned to produce this outcome.
Who decides who is a trustworthy distro maintainer? In the open source world everyone is equal, no favorites are chosen. If your point is that the distros backed by companies making at least $x million revenue a year should get priority disclosure... pretty sure somebody will take issue with this.
And it's not like a hypothetical issue either. Given the high stakes, bad actors are highly incentivized to masquerade as some small scale niche distro until they get their effectively free zero day CVE.
Otherwise, it’s on the end user. Distro volunteers don’t owe you anything. Kernel devs don’t owe you anything.
I don’t care about what would be the most effective way of doing things. I care about what folks involved actually owe to each other, and distro volunteers don’t owe users any kind of active chasing of remediation due to the user’s threat model.
The idea of making some kind of streamlined process that solves what you didn’t like about this vulnerability’s remediation is that it ignores basically all the complexity. Like “what about distros that don’t abide by embargoes” or “what distros count as ones that matter” or “what about all the vulns that aren’t in Linux, they’re in software that’s packaged across many operating systems”.
If you want that, buy a commercial distro of linux, or use Windows. That's a huge part of Microsoft's value proposition to enterprise - they pay people to stay on top of security patches for you. Same with RedHat and others.
Expecting anything of unpaid volunteers is unreasonable.
> THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM “AS IS” WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.
This vulnerability is, for some threat models, a really big deal. A security group found the vulnerability. They disclosed it. It was patched.
Folks here have gotten all kinds of bent out of shape that the groups involved didnt do things in the way each internet commenter would have liked. But this is the system working.
This vulnerability is, for other threat models, a death sentence.
> A security group found the vulnerability. They disclosed it. It was patched.
It was patched only after some people who should have been notified well in advance happened to notice something was up. That is NOT HOW IT'S SUPPOSED TO WORK.
For as long as the unpatched window remains open, skids will mess around and break things. Organized crime teams will use it for some really nasty hacking/ransomware/exfil/extortion/whatever. I guarantee you, this vuln is powerful and widespread enough that intel orgs will use it to kill targets, if they haven't already been using it for years. And if they have, we can just bank on them pulling out all the stops to take advantage of the remaining time for wreaking havoc. Make a project out of it and see if you can guess some of the future headlines.
Certain folks might not care much because they are citizens of one or more of those orgs' nations, so those targets are welcome to die in their opinion. That's fine. You do you, I'll do me, we'll all just go on doing our thing. But it's all fun and games until the wrong target gets hit and now there's a pact between the Germans and the Austrians being invoked and a few dozen million Europeans die. Or a geopolitical hotspot flares up and overnight 20% of the global petroleum supply chain grinds to a halt. Use your imagination. This vuln is a digital magic wand that is trivially usable to cast Avada Kedavra and somebody neglected to tell 99.99% of the Good Guys about it.
How is this different from any other day? Because now we've got a world-changing vuln out in the wild with no distro mitigation on day 1, and who the hell knows how many unscrupulous actors poised to take advantage of it before the fun and games stops. There will be no adults in the room when the miscreants decide to deploy while they still can.
Is this vuln going to start the next world war? Probably not. I don't expect it to and I hope and pray it doesn't. But leaving a vuln like this undisclosed to the very people whose job it is to protect us all is playing with fire. Not matches; more like a 10-grams-less-than-critical mass of plutonium.
sam is right to be pissed and he's doing a very good job of hiding it, because he knows that his users are at the mercy of TPTB in the Linux kernel world. Somebody's head needs to roll for this, and I don't mean some dude the CIA wants to hax0r because he's next on the list.
A Linux LPE is a nothingburger unless you’re relying on the Linux kernel to enforce internal security boundaries, which would simply be foolish.
Now, y'all tell me, since I'm not a web guy. How hard is it going to be to tweak this lovely little pathogen into some kind of browser exploit? It just needs to be combined with a sandbox escape to work on current versions, right? Difficult but quite worth investing the time and effort to develop if that's your line of business. If that happens, every at-risk Tails user is going to have to stay offline for a while, unless they want to play the drone lottery.
Or how about chaining it with any of the as-yet unpatched bugs in gawd-only-knows how many web services out there that have poor input sanitization code? That bug now graduates from a DoS crash causer to a root grab. Good luck stopping it with your fancy AI Behavioral Analysis security tools. They better be fast. The sploit is going to do its work in two packets, maybe three. Fun times.
Lucky for us systems monkeys, it's not like anybody is spending billions of dollars to develop vuln finding AI tools right at this very second. So there shouldn't be many unpatched web services holes.
Oh, wait.
Of course, as the grey hats can already tell you, the really delicious part of this thing is how it's going to become the LPE tool of first resort for any APT that's already inside ur base killin ur doodz.
Nothingburger? This nothingburger is going to root a million OS instances before we know what hit us.
Not sure what the solution could/should be, but surely there could be a better, easier mechanism for kernel to advise all distro maintainers who care, and for those distro maintainers to subscribe in some way. Whether any distro maintainers do so (let alone do something about the vuln notifications) would be entirely up to them. There could also be some easier way for end users to see what the distros' policies on this are, such that they can take that into account when selecting a distro.
We don’t have to agree, but the site rules are pretty clear that swipes like that aren’t ok.
That kind of distro maintainers and kernel devs communication path already exists: the linux-distros@ mailing list. But since anybody can read it, posting “hey everybody, this is a security patch” has basically the same effect as the security researcher posting, in terms of disclosing the vuln to bad actors.
Given that anybody can make a Linux distro, and Linux distros aren’t generally either capable or interested in background checking their teams or policing their individual security practice, it doesn’t seem possible to have a communication channel that distros can sign up for that lacks this problem.
There's not really an enforcement mechanism in FOSS like there is in capitalism world, it just comes down to what we want our part of the world to look like. So I think we'd think more clearly if we leave aside the ideas like "who owes who what." I think it's fun to imagine what sort of motivations and incentives there are if we put away the money ones.
Nonsensical string of words with no meaning.
If you want something that someone else isn't giving you, you have the option to try to do it yourself, or try to compel someone else to give you what you want somehow. Feel free to idk pay someone to track the kernel list and 4000 others and send you heads-ups? Try to pass a law to make people do what you want since you don't care about words like "owe"?
Yes, exactly, the opposite of paying, since when you pay someone something they owe you whatever you paid for.
If we leave aside owe, deserve, and earn, we can start discussing things like what we want our kernel ecosystem to look like, how we can make it safer, etc, without being burdened by these concepts.
It's a simple intellectual exercise, that's all. If you're having a strong reaction to it, imo that'd make it even more fun for you to participate.
You want someone to do something for you for some other reason than that they owe you.
They already are doing something for you that they don't owe you. They are writing software that you benefit from. You just want them (or somebody) to do something else that they don't owe you.
They aren't, because they don't owe you and it's not something they want to do for fun, and so since the problem is they don't owe you, you wish to set aside words like "owe".
Well sure. Looks like you found the problem and the solution alright. Why didn't anyone else think of that?
If no one is doing a task you want done because they aren't obligated to, then you seek some other reason besides obligation. Ok, what then?
Do you imagine say a dating website where people compete to look attractive by getting points by doing the best job at finding the most bugs and patches and reporting them to the most downstream consumers the fastest?
Exactly! That's what I'm interested in exploring.
> If no one is doing a task you want done because they aren't obligated to, then you seek some other reason besides obligation. Ok, what then?
That's what I love exploring. Action with no obligation. Have you any examples of that in your life? Nobody obligates me to do the long walks I enjoy where I stick a 360 camera on my head and then upload the footage to Mapillary and other open platforms, I just like to do it, and I want to find other things that I'm motivated to do without obligation, and I'm fascinated by things people do for "no reason." Understanding human motivation is really important to me for some reason.
As to "what then," yes what then? If I run a cashless commune, how do we make sure the toilets get cleaned? That's the whole question, and I love exploring it. If you'd like to experience it yourself, you could always try attending a regional Burn for a bit of a micro version of it, people doing things just for the sake of it.
I'm sorry, I don't quite understand what you mean by the dating app thing.
Linux like every open source project is just a bunch of people who are YOLOing it. Not something you use for your fortune 500 critical mission infrastructure.
But from what I understand they were not given enough information to know if it was relevant or not. The commit message just said it reverted a change from another commit because there was "no benefit". From the patch itself, it is not at all evident that this is a fix for a critical security bug.
If the commit message says it fixes a security bug, then bad actors immediately know there's a possible exploit there. So maybe it's intentional? (not familiar with the policy for this)
They dropped the ball when the shipped supposedly secure systems where their method for getting alerted to security updates was "hope people reporting to upstream will also notice a mailing list that will alert them".
(Caveat: Distro's like Ubuntu advertise security updates so this is on them. I'm not sure Gentoo does that, if they don't well then no one dropped the ball because no one represented that Gentoo got prompt security updates).
"There is no benefit in operating in-place in algif_aead since the source and destination come from different mappings. Get rid of all the complexity added for in-place operation and just copy the AD directly."
If researchers want to showcase their ability (either individually or as an organization) to identify and address security vulnerabilities in complex multi-stakeholder environments, I very much expect them to figure this out. After all, it doesn't make much sense if a company, after commissioning a security review, needs to hire a different firm to handle the vendor interactions, so that identified issues are resolved with minimal impact to the business.
These vendor interactions you're referring to are the company's customers, correct? Are you proposing the company hire another company to manage getting updates to their customers?
Feels like the more sensible process would be for kernel maintainers to announce when a version contains a fix for a high-impact security vulnerability and for distro maintainers to pay attention to that. Could be done without revealing what the vulnerability actually is in most cases, trusting the kernel maintainer's judgement. There does seem to be a public linux-cve-announce mailing list.