upvote
You cutoff a generation of juniors from employment and learning , the seniors are gone and it's all harnesses and AI systems.

I'm not all gloom and doom but the treatment of junior engineers is something I think we will either regret or rejoice. Either will have a spur of creative people doing their own independent thing or we'll have lost a generation of great engineers.

reply
This is not happening at least for 25 years, is what seniors I trust tell me.
reply
I'd say closer to 10-15 but... I'm not sure the point you're making. Is it okay because it's 25 years in the future?
reply
If we try hard enough, we can destroy the planet before we get there, I guess? 25 years is not a long time.
reply
Today junior assembly language programmer are all gone, too.
reply
Yes and that’s why I can charge premium rates for debugging. Most people cannot read a stack trace anymore.
reply
And that’s going to cause serious issues when people like Linus die and nobody knows how to make operating systems anymore.

We’ve been coasting along on a single generation who have ruled with iron fists.

reply
Brain drain.

If you fire all your SWEs they won't sit around twiddling their thumbs waiting for an AI collapse, they'll career shift. Maybe to an unemployment line and/or homelessness, maybe to something else productive, but either way they'll lose SWE skills.

If you close down all the SWE junior positions you'll strongly discourage young people training in the field. They'll do something else.

Then if you want to go back, who will you hire for it?

reply
Why would anyone want to go back? It seems likely that the automated dev systems will just keep improving and get faster, cheaper, stronger.
reply
> automated dev systems

They are large language models. Not automated development machines. They hallucinate.

The goal post has not shifted since 2023 or so. Make an LLM that doesn't blatantly disregard knowledge it has, instructions it has been giving, over and over, and you win. If trillions of USD of investment can't do it, I'd be curious to see what can.

reply
There are definitely automated dev systems, of which an LLM is a part. The remaining part may be called a 'harness' or whatever. The quality of the generated software is another matter.

If the AI is not good enough, then don't fire the devs. If/when the devs are no longer needed, I don't see why the need would return later, that was my point.

reply
I agree with you, but it's a case of the tradegy of the commons. One single company cannot make a meaningful dent even with your insight.
reply
The problem of "instant legacy" systems: something that's vibe coded and reached unmaintainable by either the AI or humans, but is also now indispensable because users are relying on it.
reply
I'm curious if this will cause a drop in quality that will lead users to generally lose trust in software.
reply
There will always be competition. For every company negatively impacting customer experience and their own ability to compete, there will be others happy to step in and take advantage of that.
reply
Some of that is already there .. but the users generally have nowhere else to go and ineffective pushback. "Enterprise software" has been awful for decades, things like Lotus Notes and SAP. Everyone hates Windows; everyone continues to use Windows.
reply
Users don't currently trust software. Look at what we've done to them - can you blame them?

The consumer space is about extracting every ounce of personal data possible.

The b2b space is about "maximizing customer value" - that is, not maximizing the value of your product to the customer, but maximizing the value of the customer to your business. Lock them in and lock them down, make your product "sticky" so they can't leave without immense cost.

reply
See Windows 11
reply
Hey you can just rewrite (or should we say regenerate) it. Second system has never been cheaper!
reply
Lack of developers, if juniors don't get hired they will move onto other industries.

Company brain drain, knowledge leaves with your seniors if you decide to get rid of them, or they just leave due to the conditions AI creates.

I don't know if the above comes to fruition, there's a lot of questions that only time will answer. But those are my first thoughts.

reply
Time. In a few years there might be no old-school way to develop anymore. Everything will be built around AI.
reply
And blockchain, don't forget blockchain.
reply
Even the programming languages will be made for AI.
reply
All code that could be written by humans, has been written. Henceforth, the rest will be generated.
reply