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Do they actually have a business presence in the EU?

If not, how would those rules apply to them?

Edit: tbh, the new "user friendly" idea of automatically converting US prices to the local currency of the visitor in spite of the company not having any connection to the visitor's locale always makes me think of drop shippers, not of legitimate businesses.

Especially if i'm in a non USD non EUR country, I am fully aware that there are different currencies in the world, I already have an established process for converting between those currencies and it's likely to be more to my advantage than whatever Stripe offers so please cut it down.

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They are mandated to provide 2-year legal guarantee under EU consumer protection law when they target EU consumers -> i.e. operate an eshop that ships to EU and sells in local currencies. Regardless of where they are located.
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And those EU consumer protection laws apply outside the EU?

I know that USers think their laws apply everywhere, but that's just a myth.

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In the opinion of the EU, they do as long as the customer is in the EU.

Everything else is just enforcement.

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Clearly! I see how this is a bit unusual for GDPR etc in a services digital world, but for physical products it's extremely standard everywhere that local laws apply to foreign companies.

If you sell medical devices (apparently even down to toothbrushes) in the USA, you have to follow FDA rules. If you sell children's toys in the EU, you've had to follow EU consumer regulations (e.g. CE mark) at least since the 90s. Going back to the 70s, if you sold a physical product in the US as a foreign company you had to follow local rules about maximum delivery times and minimum warranties. If you don't follow the rules, your shipments get blocked at customs, and any marketplaces (Amazon) selling your products get fines as well for not verifying you appropriately, so marketplaces will verify and ban your business too if you blatantly violate local rules (e.g. selling devices containing radios without FCC approval). If you're selling laptops at any scale, you need to follow the local rules for every country you ship to.

There'll certainly be cases everywhere where enforcement isn't perfect (if you contact a tiny vendor in China and they ship to you directly and you sign for & pay the customs yourself, in practice you'll get away with it, or you can always travel to a country to buy a product and carry it back personally) but in the general case local regs on physical product sales are not unusual or optional at all.

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They apply to products that a company ships to the EU, yes. As another poster points out, these could (in principle at least) be seized at customs if they are noncompliant.
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Same goes for e.g. GDPR compliance. You need to comply with GDPR when offering services to individuals in the EU no matter where you are based.
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You realize that the EU as a whole believes this and actively attempts to enforce it on citizens of other countries, right?
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They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs.

Tbh there are more issues if they wanted to be compliant with EU regulations. I'm fine that they aren't compliant (they aren't in the EU, after all), but it's something to be aware of when ordering from them.

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Wouldn't customs seizing the device be a bigger problem for the importer?
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From consumer perspective it's the problem of the seller. I would ask for a refund and if they refused I would do a chargeback.

They don't have to do business in EU if they don't want to follow the rules.

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They are a UK company.
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It's not $megacorp, try contacting them and asking.
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It's not warranty, it's Gewährleistung.
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doesn't charge by USB-C ?
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USB-C is required from 2027 on
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Wait til you hear about Hacker News' level of compliance with the GDPR
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I'm curious: why is hacker news non-GDPR-compliant?
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You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction. It's a grey area, it'd have to be tested in court. I highly doubt anyone will bring a case though. That's like calling the police on your own drug dealer. (IANAL)
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> which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction.

You're gonna have to point to part of the regulation where thats not allowed. there is a mechanism for deletion. so long as its done within 30 days its still within spec

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I don't know it inside out but I'm following the basic standard "it should be as easy to withdraw consent as give it"

The overall point being that if you want to use a product/service, you'll look past minor violations of local regulations on account deletion or charger bundling.

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Giving consent required you to receive an email to verify your account. Revoking consent requires you to send an email. It’s symmetric, like poetry.
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You're admitting to not actually knowing the law, yet accusing someone of being in violation of it...
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> You can't delete your account by self-service, you have to email dang, which is probably non-compliance because it adds friction

GDPR has nothing to do with friction I beleve.

Our lawyer told me that GDPR also applies to paper records, so there is some real-world friction right there.

The important part that there is a right - in whatever good/broken process it is enveloped is irrelevant.

Moreover does HN host PII data? Not if you don't give it to them.

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I don’t see how that has anything to do with GDPR. An email is a perfectly fine way to initiate the process. It’s not a gray area
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They are free to charge you extra for taking the charger out of the box. So I'd grant them a bit of civil disobedience on this one and just take that nice GaN charger.

I can see the EU's take on this, and maybe overall this will even be good. I have some nice Anker chargers and can charge everything we have at home with them (added some USB-C to ligthning/micro-USB thingies here and there), but I'd be a bit annoyed if the EU would force my company operating with small margins to have 2 versions of my packaging workflow.

Maybe they should just "encourage" good behaviour? With a law that is less forcing, ie just say: "If you offer a version without charger, the price must be the same as with charger. " That would (slightly) encourage leaving it out, while not forcing companies' hands.

The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one. 65W GaN chargers are a nice sweet-spot at the moment (size/power/price-wise), ie Ikea has one at 14 eur), wouldn't mine having one or two extra.

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The easiest option to implement would be to have separate SKUs for the charger and the laptop. And not three SKUs: laptop with charger, laptop without charger, separate charger.

If you ship to multiple countries you can reduce the SKUs even more as the laptop SKU isn’t country specific anymore.

Offering a version without the charger for the same price would not reduce ewaste which is the point.

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The laptop SKU probably would be country specific due to keyboard layouts though.
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Forgot about that one! And EU devices need an engraved trash-can (WEEE symbol)

https://europa.eu/youreurope/business/product-requirements/l...

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> The laptop is being shipped anyway, so I assume the charger in there may be a "sweet deal" if you need one

You do realize you’re paying for the charger, right? And you don’t like the option of not having to purchase the charger?

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Sure. And support is paying for people that are buying chargers that are too weak. Or otherwise crappy.

This is a Dutch source, but BTO charged 25 eur to remove the charger [0], because they prefer not to deal with people trying their own wonky chargers. Ok, so this was a 100 W+ laptop, arguably different (BTO only does this with 100 W+ models).

[0]: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/245774/bto-rekent-25-euro-boete-...

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BTO does that because their laptops use more than what USB-PD can deliver (240 watt). That is an understandable use case for supplying a power adapter.
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