Citing a wilderness figure for developed countries is misleading. Most of it is ecologically vacant--second-growth and tree plantations sans apex predators, large herbivores, intact soil biota, etc. Tree cover is not a functioning ecosystem. Developed countries have exported their ecological destruction: the beef, soy, palm oil, and minerals driving habitat loss in the tropics get consumed in the same places where the domestic "wilderness" figures look great.
The Living Planet Index (actual wild vertebrate populations) is down 73% on average since 1970. North American bird populations are down ~3 billion over the same period. Terrestrial insect biomass shows steep decline in studied regions. None of that shows up in "how much undeveloped land exists" or "how many solar panels got installed."
China's solar buildout is great news for climate, but climate is one driver among several. Habitat fragmentation, pollution, and overfishing don't get solved by the energy transition. You can decarbonize the entire grid and still preside over a mass extinction.
They may be able to distribute all solar panels and wind turbines worldwide; in the end that is just tiny-potatoes good because those markets are not that big. But when it comes to getting to energy independence they are using an "all of the above" strategy to get there. Planetary catastrophy can take a back seat to socio-economic unrest due to less/no money and opportunities for people.
Most of the growth will be in Africa, not exactly the most lawful place in the world so it looks kind of bleak for the environment and animals there.
Those 2 billion will all want a nice home and a smartphone, computer, TV, car etc…
Earth Overshoot Day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Overshoot_Day
It's not looking great, not even if we got nuclear fusion reactors figured out tomorrow.
As per David Suzuki: it is shit, it will get shittier, responsible people should act accordingly [0]: <<"The science has said, ‘We have passed a tipping point, we cannot go back,'" Suzuki said. Survival in a warming world, he says, will increasingly depend on the resilience of local communities — and preparation must start now.>>
[0] https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/david-suzuki-memoir-life-bir...
A similar situation exist with hydro power. We know that it is causing major extinction of species that depend on migration, with major harm to the ecosystem, and yet no one want to give it up despite being fully aware of the harm. Removing hydro do not fit any of existing strategies and so the current situation, as unreasonable it is, continues unchanged.
I have also seen similar issues here on HN when people discuss emission per capita vs absolute emissions. A large portion of people who heard the warning and are aware of the effect of global warming, would still argue that reducing emissions where emissions are being created is unfair if emissions per capita is relative lower compared to other places. The two camps created from this has opposing strategies, even if both camps agree with the current situation.
Rewilding at scale, deep emissions cuts, and a serious move away from animal agriculture are the same project.
You in fact rightfully but incompletely recognize : artificial fertilizers (for giant mono-crop fields of soybeans to feed to cows and pigs [0]), replacing forests (to clear room for soybean fields and pasture for cows and pigs [1][2]), and runoff of these fertilizers and manure into waterways. The parent comment is right - if we want to fix these problems, we must stop killing and eating animals at such an industrial and horrendous scale.
0. https://www.ucs.org/about/news/extent-emissions-created-mass...
One of the few areas of sustainable farming is aquaculture like shellfish and seaweed, which could actually be used to reduce the negative effects caused by modern farming. If there were a competition in least amount of harm, those would likely be the winners.
Fields of corn or soybeans will still exist without animal-based agriculture, especially with current demand for biofuels. As long as the land can be farmed to generate revenue, people will farm it. Artificial fertilizers is the primary enabler of this.
Maybe I'm wrong but reading your comment it feels like you are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, and you use your conclusion that we will never be sustainable as your excuse to continue to eat animals.
There is no evidence that there would be far less farm fields without that. Farm fields exists if there is profit to be had. Right now the demand for biofuels are directly competing with the demand for animal feed. Farmers will primary grow and sell crops based on what pay the most, and can easily switch if one pays more than the other.
https://ageconsearch.umn.edu/record/360637/?v=pdf The Impact of Market Prices on Farmers' Crop Choices in Ghana https://www.researchgate.net/publication/373480516_Farmers'_... Farmers’ risk rating and crop portfolio choice in Kewot Woreda, North Ethiopia https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0308521X2... Understanding factors influencing farmers’ crop choice and agricultural transformation in the Upper Vietnamese Mekong Delta
Notice that none of those says that farmers would not use the fields if the current most price worthy crop would go away. Farmers choose what to farm based, among other things, the market. If you remove animal agriculture, you don't get far less fields. You get fields with a different crop in them.
The only thing that will stop farming is either if the external cost of farming is applied, such as pollution, or if climate change makes farming the land unprofitable. Currently that pollution is not applied as a cost. A carbon and water pollution tax could be a strategy that addressed this, and would impact all farming regardless of crop. If that is "perfection" and "enemy of the good", then the definition of perfection is not shared.
this is simply false - did you follow any of the citations? you’re welcome to find something to support your position but as they say: if it can be asserted without evidence, it can be dismissed without evidence.
If we step back a bit, the most impactful bit is true human wish for growth.
If we were satisfied with a comfortable stasis, that would be helpful.
Population 2026: ~8.3 billion
Can't escape this and its consequences on the environment.
The renewables revolution has been accompanied by a steady increase in emissions. For emissions read carbon dioxide (no argument from anyone about toxic gases) which is a carbon source for plant growth and as we know, is pumped into greenhouses to increase production. Satellite pictures confirm greening of the Earth in many areas.
This does not have to be a counter argument but the emission story would be more convincing to a lot of people if other factors like this (and the difficult question of just how do you decrease energy use without impoverishing people?) were discussed in the public forum in a balanced way as with dissenting views from those distinguished scientists evidently holed up on luxury yachts financed by the oil industry. 'I think you are wrong because ...' or 'you have a point in that respect but ... '. In a nutshell let's get the discussion onto what used to be called 'an adult level'.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/may/09/norway-oil-and...
A big issue is cost and economic opportunity. For example, a lot of land in the SF Bay Area cannot be developed. This is great for the environment, but not so great for housing costs.
Long term, it’s likely worth it to save the environment, but let’s not ignore its immediate cost to everyone besides the upper class.
Unfortunately, I think that housing unaffordability is just a desired feature - people who live there don’t want to live near people who couldn’t afford to live there. It’s much more segregated than many other parts of the country I’ve lived in.
The article I saw basically outlined in more detail what I said above and then followed it with: "....but what if that forest could be made productive?" It's rare that I want to reach through the screen and choke somebody but they got me that day.
The cult of Line Go Up will continue to win. They will destroy what we have and then sell us the solution to the mess they created. This will be coupled with a morality tale around individual hard work and personal accountability.
Agricultural societies are machines for creating large numbers of humans. In any democracy (or sufficiently responsive government) the kinds of persons that are created is a powerful determinant of what subsequently happens. Corporations choose to make consumer-humans. Many other types have existed, so ipso facto are possible.
Bhutan historically pushed "Gross National Happiness" and such as part of a propaganda program to maintain their largely agricultural society against this pressure. Again, this absolutely did not work, and they're now setting up a proper capitalist center in Gelephu to try and convince young people that they don't need to leave the country to have a prosperous life. The precise details of what people want may vary from culture to culture, but there's very few where the average person would not like to have more and fancier stuff.
2. Claiming the modern capitalism’s “cult of line go up” has anything to do with humans leaving caves is a stretch at best and intellectually dishonest at worst. Humans left caves out of a desire to create better lives. Stable shelter, better quality and variety food, tools to make life easier, clothing to protect us, etc. Plus probably some human desire for exploration. None of that is driving capitalists who insist “line must go up”.
We have more than enough to go around. We cannot grow infinitely. Greed is holding us back from caring for our entire human population.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/apr/04/just-57-...