upvote
There's nothing stopping you from setting up your free (as in freedom) slice of cyberspace for you and your friends, for now.

Looking at all the new and proposed laws coming through, I don't think we'll have those basic freedoms all that much longer.

reply
> There's nothing preventing you from setting up a web server

Carrier-grade NAT stops you pretty good. And if you make past that hurdle, HTTPS might stop you. And without Google's help, nobody will find you anyway.

That's where this whole thing went wrong. The modern Internet is quite terrible at actually connecting computer and people. Everything is segregated into clients and servers, and to get anything done you need a middle man.

reply
Yea it should have been IPv8 from day one. It almost feels like IPv6 was a psyop.
reply
Hi George. Have you seen RoboCop? A free market survival-of-the-fittest gets us closer to a dystopian 1984-like society. Overregulation will also do that.

Regulation isn't exactly at odds with freedom. One could certainly regulate freedom in order to foster it.

I agree on the "information wants to be free" aspect. In the early days of the Internet, it felt like a free as in freedom shadow world where anyone could do anything they want. The moment copyright infringement lawsuits started to happen, that sense withered.

Nowadays the companies with the highest market cap are computer technology companies. They're bigger than probably at least half the countries on Earth in terms of revenue. They're abusing their multinational power such that goverments become a tool to achieve more power and more money.

I personally think that us humans have to repeatedly go through centuries of bad decisions and evil overlords to learn an important lesson. Kindness can't exist without evilness. Jing-jang has a dot of the opposite color on each side. But I digress.

Cheers!

Edit: IDK what the lesson is, either. Perhaps it varies per person?

reply
> Have you seen RoboCop?

Out of curiosity, why cite a 1980s action film?

reply
Because it's a reference most people would get. The entire premise is that everything will be privatised, including healthcare and the police.

(BTW, I doubt a Motorola heart would cost $1, but I still think that's hilarious.)

reply
That would be great if any of it worked. However, we tried that and now find ourselves living (I use that term loosely) in a capitalist hellscape.
reply
We do?
reply
If you have friends with some shared meaning then anything is easy.

Everyone else can get get strip mined for attention and croak, you don't care.

reply
A libertarian society doesn't coddle you, but it still accepts that the state has monopoly of force, and it accepts that the state needs to be fair and predictable.

I think the author's fear would be that we currently live in an informational vortex that threatens to destabilize and consume our democracies and societies, and remove even the possibility of a fair and predictable state.

And I would argue that that is hardly an outlandish fear. It's barely an extrapolation at all.

reply
> A libertarian society doesn't coddle you, but it still accepts that the state has monopoly of force,

It does not accept that. In particular, libertarians are very ok with domestic violence.

Quite a lot of libertanism is all about creating conditions where poorer or weaker people have no realistic recourse.

reply
> Of course those people suck, but the solution isn't government.

Why? That seems like a big assertion to make in a side sentence without any supporting argument.

reply
Well, governments are coercive forces with a total monopoly on the legal system and the use of violence. Perhaps monopolies being bad is reason enough? There are the hundreds of millions (billions?) of people murdered by governments throughout history, including the many atrocities modern governments are committing today, which is almost surely reason enough. And then there are the philosophical arguments against political authority, called philosophical anarchism, which can be quite convincing.

It seems the onus is on the other side to justify the state, and that we should't be trying to find alternative solutions to the problems it attempts to solve.

reply
But in a democracy, you at least have input! Google is also a coercive force with no real checks on its power, but it doesn't care about anything you have to say. That's the difference, that's it, right there. The answer to abuse of power is not to just unleash raw power, its to subordinate and restrict it. That's what government is for. When you find yourself arguing that power you participate in is bad and shouldn't restraint power you have 0 influence in, that's when it's time to wonder if they've gotten to you.
reply
But you don’t have to use Google. That’s the critical difference and why people should be so much more skeptical of using the monopoly on violence to enforce things.

Millions of people live in the US and don’t use Google products or pay Google a dime.

Try not paying taxes because you don’t want to support the actions of the federal government and see how that works out.

reply
Life without a smartphone increasingly challenging. You have to use either Google or Apple. I use a de googled Android lineage phone but this is always getting harder, as numerous threads on this site will attest. Plus literally every employer I've ever had has used Google services, plus lots of other sites I might have to use implement recaptcha or otherwise invisibly to me share my data or data about me with Google. Also, even if I do figure out a way to stay off Google's radar, they're a powerful force which shapes my world. They hire lobbyists to influence policy which affects me, build data centers which raise my cost of electricity, or sell killer robots to evil people.

I think where people go wrong is treating Google the way they treat their weird neighbor Bob. Bob's damage is limited. Google is an immense, powerful, alien entity, far beyond the control of any person, and with its own inscrutable goals which are the not goals of literally any person alive or dead.

I genuinely don't understand the desire to leave this entity unmoored to wreck what havoc it may.

reply
Federal government spending for Google stuff is probably in the $100Ms. If you pay taxes you’re paying Google.
reply
The amount of input we have is virtually zero. I have never had a candidate I felt represented me, I have never had a candidate who I voted for win an election, and I have never had a a party who the candidate voted for win an election. Thus my minuscule "input" had absolutely zero impact, both in elections and on my life as a whole.

The reason democracy is better than other forms of governance is that it provides incentives for those in power which are better aligned with the upholding of human rights and protection against abuse. Myself casting a vote every few years is de facto meaningless.

reply
If you are in the US. Proportionate representation stopped completely with the Reapportionment Act of 1929.

Subsequently the tail end of the gilded age and enacted in June 18, only 5months before the crash of oct 1929.

Constitutionally the size of the US government was expected to scale proportionally with population and 3/5ths of slaves.

This is why your vote ‘feels’ meaningless. We have been under a state of corporate capture for coming up to 100years. Last time there was push back from congress we got the Powell memo. That memo reinforces and defends corporate power in American politics.

reply
The 3/5 of slave population vote were given to the slaveholders. It was not proportional, it was giving structural advantage to pro-slavery side of it.
reply
No, I live in a country under the Westminster system.
reply
Logical conclusion: The US is not a democracy.
reply
Since monopolies make stuff scarce and expensive, you basically want free market for violence, it should be be cheap and abundant?

And all the DDoS and crytocurrency extortions and scams should extend to meatspace too, and you would be okay with it because it's supposedly still better than what govts do?

reply
In a democratic society, government is the representative of the people.

It is also the only entity powerful enough to stand up to other monopolies, businesses, which are dictatorships without any democratic control.

There will always be a power structure. I'd prefer one I can vote out.

The fundamental flaw in any type of libertarian / anarchist thinking is denying the reality that power will always be concentrated somehow. The libertarian fantasy would result in neofeudalism, if theres no state to stop it.

reply
Corporations are state-created and state-protected entities. Remove limited liability and other special state privileges from businesses and you'll have a lot less to complain about.
reply
The concentration of wealth and thus power is inherent to capitalism. No state needed.
reply
> In a democratic society, government is the representative of the people.

Representative of who exactly? Generally governments around the world win with <50% of the vote. Those who vote make up a small fraction of the population. Of those who voted for the winning party, only a small fraction of them actually feel fully represented by their party - often people vote strategically, or they vote for the "lesser evil" rather than voting for a representative who wholly represents their views.

The rest have a government who are not representative of them in power over them. Hardly representative of the people.

reply
That might be a problem of the specific state you live in. Some systems are better at representing the people than others.
reply
On this side of the wall, you and your friends are strong and happy and free in your garden. On the other side, a hellscape filled with giant monsters debating how best to filet you. You will keep ceeding them ground, your garden gets ever smaller. The monsters ate Brian, oops, well that's the consequence of freedom! But you're next, isn't it completely obvious you're next? Why would you unilaterally disarm against the monsters? Why for the love of God why would you say "no the monsters are good actually!"
reply