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Sir do you just think all muslims are the same people? What else ties these groups together?

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No? I'm talking about who is sponsoring the somali pirates. I'm not connecting them to these groups. They are already connected to these groups in particular. I didn't just name three random terrorist organizations. These groups are all operating in somalia right now.

by throwaway2744811 hours ago|

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I'm not sure the extent to which either Daesh or Andar Allah are formally operating in Somalia, but I apologize if I cast unfair aspersions. I don't believe there are any formal or uniform or centralized funding of the pirates at all, though—many were simply fisherman who could no longer make a living. This is just my understanding however. I'm also open to the idea that the pirates aren't just from Somalia.

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The level of ordinance is enough evidence that there is significant outside support. RPG-7s do not grow on trees in Somalia. I hazard to guess an RPG on the black market is also a great expense to anyone who isn't being given one by one of these groups connected to the arms trade in effort to advance their goals or position in some way.

by self10 hours ago|

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They cost under $500/launcher: https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/one-for-history-books...

$300/launcher here: https://www.un.org/depts/los/nippon/unnff_programme_home/fel...

A decade ago it wasn't terrorist groups funding them.

by asdff9 hours ago|

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Seems cheap to you and me but that is about the full annual income of someone from somalia. It isn't realistic for an individual to purchase one without external support.

by jjk1664 hours ago|

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> full annual income of someone from somalia.

Not if they seize a cargo ship it isn't. Criminals can afford the tools to commit crimes by using those tools to commit crimes.

by BeetleB10 hours ago|

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> The level of ordinance is enough evidence that there is significant outside support.

"I have no evidence, but I can't think of other scenarios so it must be true!"

by asdff9 hours ago|

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Well it isn't like you can do very much hunting with an RPG-7. Its purpose is to destroy material that you cannot with small arm fire and that sort of limits the intended purpose and customer.

by throwaway2744810 hours ago|

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Well why do you think they want to raid these ships? To buy more RPG-7s, of course!

But seriously, if they were being funded by other groups, why pirate in the first place?

by asdff9 hours ago|

1. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Reagan_s...

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Same reasons as the context of this photo (1). One party would like to advance some geopolitical interest, another party is willing to do it if they are paid and supported as such. No different than any other business deal.

by throwaway274489 hours ago|

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Is there any evidence of this? Why would pirates not advance this claim?

I think it's much more likely it's just easy money and is relatively cheap to pull off.

by _DeadFred_11 hours ago|

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_corsairs

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I mean that is ignoring the American military experience with Islamic pirates and Islamic slavers.

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That also supports the government capacity argument. The US was able to make peace with the barbary states and extract a right of safe passage assurance from them. Why? Because the leadership of these states had enough government capacity to compel their domestic pirates into agreeing to the terms their government dictated. Today, in Somalia, we see what the lack of government capacity manifests as. I'm sure the government of Somalia does in fact have laws against piracy. The fact they aren't being enforced, and the pirate industry there exists, shows what happens when law and agreements meet the hard realities that there needs to be government capacity to see them enforced and heeded.

by _DeadFred_11 hours ago|

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The Islamic governments there always had the capacity though contrary to your central point. As evidenced by the many treaties there were entered into by those governments, not by the Islamic pirates/slavers.

From the writings at the time 'Muslim sources, however, sometimes refer to the "Islamic naval jihad"—casting the conflicts as part of a sacred mission of war under Allah'

These Islamic pirate/slavers are the SPECIFIC pirates that "The Barbary threat led directly to the United States founding the United States Navy in March 1794.". These are the specific type of pirates that the US Navy was founded to combat to protect ships being seized and their crews sold into slavery.

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Of course it gets a little muddy when you consider the europeans also had state sponsored privateers. I would not consider state sponsored pirates like this to be the same as pirates who operated against the interests of basically all states and required a little corner of the earth free of anyone's control to operate. Kind of a different phenomenon with different incentives and funding structures and goals.

by throwaway2744811 hours ago|