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I've "vibed" some non-trivial stuff lately using a combination of Codex with 5.5 and Claude Code with Opus 4.7.

Key has been to spend a fair amount of time on initial overall design document, which is split into tangible and limited phases. I go back and forth between them on this document until we're all happy.

For each phase an implementation plan is made. At the end, a summary document of what was delivered and what was discovered. This becomes input to next phase.

I do check the documents, and what they're doing. I also check the tests, some more thorough. And some spot checks on the code to see if I like the structure.

I have mainly used Claude for coding and Codex for design and code review after phases. I ask both to check test coverage after phases.

Managed to implement some tools and libraries without writing a single line of code this way, which have been very beneficial to us.

Since it's so async I can work on other stuff while they plod along.

I think it's not universal though. But stuff that can be tested easily and which you have a firm grasp of what you want to achieve, but not necessarily exactly how, that I've been impressed with.

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That’s not vibing, but waterfall development.
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None of it is non-trivial tho. You might think so, but it’s not.
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While some people got it to work better, for me vibe coding games still didn't reach the point of regular sites/web apps. Physics, creativity, assets and UI/UX still need a lot of hand handholding with the models. Games that are more interface based like point and click or something like reigns are easier though
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I remember this very clearly myself. Before opus 4.5, I was doing a lot of hand holding and was coding a lot myself, but I have not written code since that day more or less.

I did write some stuff myself just to learn how the enigma encryption machine worked, so wrote myself to learn. But professionally, I stopped coding in November.

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It is sad. I like programming, if I couldn't do it and had to write text (which I do hate, I'm not a writer) it would be make quite a sad world.
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Of course you can always program by hand, no one is stopping you.
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Not sure this is true for all of us. I bet many/some (unsure here) are told to use ai for their daily programming tasks.
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Plenty of companies are forcing the use of AI to people.
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How do you justify your salary given that you're just using a tool that any of us could use for $20 an hour in your role?
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How do you justify your salary given that you're just using OSS compiler/editor any of us could use for free in your role ?

AI just changed how I edit code - I still see coworkers (senior developers) failing with Claude/Codex and get stuck when there are trivial solutions if you understand the full problem space. Right now AI is just a productivity tool.

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How do you justify your salary given that you sit in a chair all day, likely making the world worse, and make 5x as much as someone saving lives, building houses, or teaching kids how to read?
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Supply and demand. Not many people are good at programming and it's highly in demand.

The question is how many people will be good at vibe coding? If the answer is "lots" then we can definitely expect programming salaries to return to "normal" levels. His question is very relevant; you can't dismiss it as easily as that.

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it can be easily dismissed because "anyone can use the tool that costs $20" makes no meaningful sense.

this was always true in fact $20 is more than the free it costs for notepad++

it's a flippant statement. Go down the line of any tool; it's cost has basically nothing to do with skill difference to operate it. See basically everything. There's levels.

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Please see Ben Evans’ podcast on a good take on this. Coding is just one of the task you do in your job, it is not the job or at least it probably is not. You do not get paid to code, you get paid to make a set of decisions that create value to the company. If this is automated then yes sadly your salary is not justified.
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> Coding is just one of the task[s] you do in your job

But it's by far the most fun part and the only reason to take such a job...

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To me, LLM's free up time for me so that I can spend time on the fun parts of coding. Less boilerplate, more focus on the interesting problems. This is no different from using high level languages. The problem domain is less around memory management and garbage collection and closer to the problem you're actually trying to solve.
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I agree with this. I feel like there’s a false dichotomy right now in a lot of these discussions where one can only vibe code or only code by hand. It is possible to do both…
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Which episode ?
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Someone competent using them is today a requirement and for awhile will make the marginal utility of skilled workers greater than that of unskilled. The justification is that they are much more productive than they were before.
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You can build things quickly with AI, but you can’t delegate your responsibilities to AI. Once the AI starts struggling, you’ll need to takeover and figure it out.
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I don't think you understand how programming as a job works, writing code is the final output of the process but it's not the job in itself.
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They're using a tool that anyone can use for $20 an hour, sure. But that's not what they're "just" doing. This is what is so insane about non-technical people talking about code - writing the actual syntax is not really the hard part.

What you're saying is like "how do you justify your salary as a NASA engineer when anyone can use Simulink and generate the code?"

It is extremely ignorant.

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There is no good justification for anyone's salary really, except perhaps doctors and underwater welders.
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no engineers on staff and stakeholders think the company is incompetent

Coinbase is paying the price for that for every UX glitch, after the CEO was gleeful about HR personnel shipping production code

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They don't need to justify it!
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Because the tool will happily give you a "solution" that kinda works for a few inputs. It will happily correct itself when you give it more incorrect tests.

It will almost never converge on the general solution that will pass tests you haven't given it yet.

This is why AI is sooo good at Javascript and related slop. A solution that "kinda works" is good enough 9 times out of 10 and if some tests fail well ... YOLO and the web page will probably render anyway.

Contrast that to using Scheme or Lisp where AI will have trouble simply keeping the parentheses balanced.

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To be fair, take away a human's paren highlighting and see how well they do.
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You adjust pretty quickly. Taking away compiler error messages would be fun though.
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Not everyone is a "coder" you know, some of us are engineers.
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Paradox - you can get multiple inflection points even as systems start to have dimishing marginal returns in core capability, I think this is due to 'threshold crossing' where something 'becomes good enough for a specific purpose' - it just unlocks capabilities.

'Nail Guns' used to be heavy, required heavy power cords, they were extremely expensive. When they got lighter, cheaper, battery pack ... at some point, they blend seamlessly into the roofers process, and multiply dramatically the work that can be done. Marginal improvements beyond that may not yield the same 'unlocks' because the threshold has been crossed.

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Opus 4.5 in November 2025 was legitimately, unironically an inflection point and is the sole reason for the current hysteria.

GPT 5.5 is a significant improvement over GPT 5.4 but I wouldn't call it an inflection.

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5.2 and the first codex model were step function changes in capability
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It's very real. Just in the past 2 months or so IMO there's been a pretty big improvement in claude for local dev (although I think a lot of that is less model strength and more harness capability). 1m context is a huge difference (~30 min vs 2.5hr between compact significantly increases the scope of what I get the AI to do before it goes stupid). The other biggest difference I've noticed is a better balance of actually doing the work vs pushing back on bad ideas. I want the AI to tell me if it thinks the thing I am telling it is wrong or a bad idea, but if I confirm, I want it to do that anyway. A couple months ago, the claude was a lot more likely to either say "This is too much work I'm not going to do all of it", tell me the idea was genius (and then pretend to do it) or something equally useless.
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>1m context is a huge difference (~30 min vs 2.5hr between compact significantly increases the scope of what I get the AI to do before it goes stupid)

I think the smart zone stays within the first 100k tokens, no mater if the context window is 240k or 1 million.

I divide the work to fit within that 100k and use subagent for the tasks.

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In my experience it's more like 400-500k tokens.
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I feel the change. It went from an autocomplete tool, to an agent running 5 tasks in parallel while I just supervise. The improvement is enormous.
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It's real for me as a non coder previously uploading a python script asking it to add this function or that function used to break it now usually it just works at least with Claude and Chat Gpt models. Google Gemini still breaks stuff but rumors are their new flash model that will be announced soon is very good. I am usually working with data in csv files and generating spreadsheet pdf etc and the results for that has improved dramatically.
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That’s me. Built a scraper do dump stuff to a csv of a list of images for further ocr and openCV processing. Now I have a convenient list of hits once I run the batch that used to be a loooot of manual sifting.

Once I work out the kinks, I’ll be able to further automate it.

Would have taken 10-100x as long for me to build it without AI and the AI version is probably better.

But yeah, I have enough knowledge to know what prompts are needed and figure out those “oh, I think it’s running slow or failing because of xyz” and further prompt to improve it based on that what I think it should do instead.

And I know where to make slight changes without burning my allotments.

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Purely vibe code won't work. You need to define an excellent architecture, have great specs, a solid plan, divide the plan in small phases that fit well in a context window, use TDD and automated code reviews for implementing each phase, do QA and some code review.

At any point you need to have agents review, verify and test the other agents output and iterate until the output is perfect.

And also, have good e2e tests.

IMO, if you don't spend at least a few tens of millions tokens per day, you aren't doing it properly.

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