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> When I am searching for something, I usually want to find primary sources.

And therein lies the rub; for years now Google's search results have returned useless SEO garbage. For now, it definitely seems like an LLM answer is better than what was being returned and I guess this is the reason why Google ripped it out.

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You can ask them to cite their sources. It's very good practice to do so, and to check those sources, because I've found that about 30-40% of the time their source doesn't support their answer at all.
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If it's wrong 2 out of 5 times, why even waste your time going to it in the first place? That's a massive failure rate.
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Because it finds the sources much quicker than I would have been able to on my own, and I can then synthesize them into data I know is correct, as correct as any human-generated data can be of course.
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But what that because their search was so bad that it took you that long to find the sources?
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No, it's usually because it finds sources that I would not have even thought to search for in the first place.

Agentic AI has its faults, but one thing I've found it to be very good at is surfacing the "unknown unknowns": things I didn't know I should have searched for but that are directly relevant to my problem.

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Because way more than three out of five Google results are SEO garbage or sponsored crap. The bar has been set extremely low by Google, a 60% validity rate sounds magical.
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If I'm going to an LLM (as with websearch before it), it's usually because I don't know the answer, don't have anyone close to me that knows the answer, and can't pay anyone (or don't know who to pay) for the answer. In other words, my failure rate without the LLM would be 100%.
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The problem is that everything you have said renders you unable to determine the validity of the answer provided.

Sometimes that is fine, sometimes it is not

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It's much easier to determine the truth of an answer than it is to come up with that answer yourself. This is analogous to the P=NP problem or the recognition vs. recall problem: it is much easier to recognize and verify a correct answer than it is to recall or generate it yourself.

I've got a pretty solid algorithm for checking correctness: I ask the LLM for its sources, I try to find 3-5 independent ones (that are not just copying each others' answers), and if they all agree, that's very likely to be the correct answer. Simple math here: if you have 5 sources and they are each 60% likely to be correct, then an LLM choosing at random from them would have a 60% success rate, while someone checking all 5 of them for agreement would have a 1 - (0.4^5) = 99% chance of being correct. It's a good algorithm for doing other things like verifying scientific papers, too: you look for indendent research groups that have all reproduced the same findings.

I did the same thing with ten-blue-links websearch as well, and hope this would be the habit of anyone else too. (Although I know it wasn't, because I worked on Google websearch 15 years ago, on a project to increase the credibility of search results, and we did cafeteria UX studies about "What makes a credible result?" and everybody said "Because it appears as the top result on Google.")

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I don't find it nearly that bad. If I really need factual information, it will generally go off and read the data from primary sources anyway. So unless it's really misunderstanding context, you're getting the data from the source.
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It really matters the task. General knowledge from Wikipedia, great. Things more specific, with any thought needing to be used, or technical fields outside of software his numbers are pretty close to mine.
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The problem too, is that we're all using different tools with different experiences -- there isn't one "AI". And if you're not paying for it, you're getting some real bad experience.
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With Google returning lists full of SEO spam, 2 out of 5 is quite good. If you know something better than that, I'd love to hear it.
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Because being right 60% of the time with minimal work is still amazing, as long as one accounts for the failure rate correctly.

Say I want to look up some game from my childhood, which I barely remember any details for. Going to google and trying is likely going to be very difficult unless I happen to get lucky with some key element. But if an LLM can get it right even a minority of the time, it can lead to me quickly finding the game I'm looking for.

This does depend upon the ability to evaluate the answer, like checking against source or some other option where you know a good answer from bad. If you can't, then it does become much more dangerous. Perhaps part of the reason AI seem to empower experts more than novices in some domains?

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If I have to read the sources anyway, why not just have the model give me the links themselves? You know, like search engines already do?
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Search engines don’t do that any more - they just give you a bunch of SEO spam sites, now mostly filled with plausible slop. Answers from search are _less_ reliable than answers from an LLM now.

I worry that the LLMs are just the equivalent of a ‘lagging indicator’ of web quality though - that they will also soon be overwhelmed with the sheer volume of plausible nonsense that is the web now, just like search engines are.

Model collapse everywhere.

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If the LLM is capable of providing good citations, then those citations could be returned in the same format as traditional search engines, not the new, LLM generated content first format. If they aren't capable of providing good citations, then the suggestion I was replying to is incorrect (and you'd have no way of knowing if they were right or not)
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Yes, but this is much more effort than a traditional search result that has a relevant quote from the source right there.
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ChatGPT is the only bot that reliably cites sources (through Web search mode).

The other bots either make up links or simply don't provide any information that is distinguishable from the LLM predictive output.

Ironically Gemini is also very bad at this, while it should have been the best at Web search.

Gemini also does something very patchy, which is to provide "links" which are in fact GET queries into classic Google search. I'm guessing they did it this way because the links generated/hallucinated by the LLM were too unreliable.

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All of Google AI Mode is sourced.
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Yes, and those sources often contradict the AI summary if you follow them (or if you know anything about the topic).
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A common pattern:

Type your question in Android/Chrome search bar:

"Is …?"

AI Overview on the search results page:

"No…"

Click through to the AI mode tab/"Dive deeper with AI" CTA:

"Yes…"

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I love when I read the source link and it says the exact opposite of what the AI summary said.

Sorry, no, I hate that.

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Dont they all do that ?

I know that deepseek has links for every chain it makes where you can read the source and it's actually a good thing to check on that.

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If it even exists.
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Even before the AI era I slowly became less and less successful with google searches. Everything - non trivial / specific - that I looked for turned into a chore and I quickly gave up.

LLMs, that can supply valid links, give me a completely different variety of results. Either I am too dumb to search manually, too impatient or google search is just broken, but Gemini usually gives me something I can work with. I just wished I could blacklist some sources like medium.

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Checkout Kagi. You can blacklist sites. You can also weight certain sites higher than others. I've been using it for almost a year at this point. When I'm forced to use Google at work, I am legitimately less effective at finding the information I need.
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Google search is just broken.
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Maybe SEO-maxxers will finally leave it alone now if the median consumer trusts the corporate models
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-site:medium.com in the search bar

This will remove any results from there for you.

Alternatively, site:news.ycombinator.com would search this website explicitly.

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I don't trust facts from humans. When I am searching for something, I usually want to find direct sensor readings. As soon as a number is involved, I do my best to not even look at the human output.

Even though the result is often coherent and confidently synthesizes information from multiple experiences, it can also hallucinate, suffer from recency bias, or accidentally merge memories from different decades. AFAICT, without access to the underlying telemetry, human responses are for entertainment purposes only.

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Sometimes I use chatgpt thinking mode for searches when I expect there will be a lot of noise. "What are some in-depth reviews for <some book I've heard of>"

Have you tried explicitly asking for links to primary sources?

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I see ChatGPT traffic to my website for hallucinated pages.
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It means they actually clicked the link. That's what you're supposed to do!
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Yeah pretty much.

I have seen it hallucinate things confidently but that is usually when it has no direct sources to pin down the output.

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