upvote
There have been many elections in many political entities where a politician got elected because one group of citizens really liked that politician; and another group of citizens thought that politician was extremely, historically bad. This is inherent to mass democracy itself in any polity where there are real and deep-seated differences between different groups of the electorate. "A Trump" - in the sense of a politician whose opponents describe in apocalyptic terms and consider that politician's supporters to be stupid and bigoted - gets elected all the time in all sorts of places.
reply
> Why trust anyone?

Because comparative advantage.

reply
True. But we seem like the least trustworthy people on earth at the moment. After israel, anyway.

Trump has nothing to do with it.

reply
> Trump has nothing to do with it.

Genuinely, what makes the US untrustworthy if not Trump? I’m curious what I may be missing.

reply
Remember the guy who promised he'd shut down Guantanamo? Or the guy who made up some weapons so he could invade Irak? Or the guy who ordered Northstream to be blown up?
reply
> Genuinely, what makes the US untrustworthy if not Trump?

We invaded Korea, and then Vietnam, and a few hundred other interventions that don't seem to be sanctioned by the international community. All because of a hardon for ideology that doesn't seem to actually reflect the interests of the people who live here.

reply
Most of those were sanctioned by the international community. Look at the participants.
reply
We had the international community on a leash after WWII. This means nothing.
reply
Leash or not, there was international support as a fact.
reply
Great. I'm happy you're willing to recognize our fucking empire for what it is
reply
> We invaded Korea

what a terrible bad faith arguemnt

N Korea invaded the south and the UN voted to create a joint force in there to defend it.

reply
Israel seems trustworthy in the sense that their priorities and aims are abundantly clear to everyone. People are pissed about Israel for Iran right now, but, I mean, there is a reason why they are attacking Iran right now and not Egypt or Turkey. You go about and poke the bear like Iran has done for decades with Israel, you get these outcomes. Egypt tried to poke the bear but that was decades ago and they've since learned there is nothing to gain there.
reply
Nobody is buying this narrative of Israel being provoked, because the reaction to the provocation, if there ever was one, is completely disproportional.

Israel had settlements in Palestine way before the conflict outbreak, and nothing explains the systematic targeting of civilian infrastructure on Lebanon but for Israel just going supernova, like Germany and Japan back then.

reply
Hey that's up to you. I will never vote for a person who supports Israel. Our parents may have been retarded but we don't have to be. I just see a state devoted to slaughtering as many people as they can. Iran looks like a saint compared to them.
reply
I'm not supportive of them either. I just don't consider them untrustworthy though. Everything they do is exactly what they've always done since that state was formed. Easily the most predictable nation on earth, Israel. Easy way to get Israel off your back though? Stop funding terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah that inevitably do something stupid to provoke the Israelis into armed conflict. It is really that simple.
reply
True. Israel begins, Israel assassinates and complains about being targeted by terrorism. Israel begins the loop again. What is more reliable than Israel?

Iran would be a better ally. China would be a better ally. Fucking Russia would be a better ally. Why did we decide to die on the hills of (loosely translated, I guess) mageddo?

But instead our state leans into exterminating people because our PR team was inspired by Goebbels and was trained to hate muslims

reply
It is like a modern day state of Prussia. A beachhead and airstrip in the middle east. Weapons manufacturing. Rocket science. A cyber security firm. An intelligence agency. Some of the best in the world at these things. All wrapped up into one. This is why nations like to ally with Israel.

But again, if you don't want problems with Israel don't make problems with Israel. Their populace is militarized like few other and seemingly with a lot of political cohesion. Egypt has learned not to poke the bear. So has Jordan.

reply