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by drnick123 hours ago |
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upvoteby herewulf4 hours ago|
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Absolutely, and this is also a big deal for longevity of your purchase. I have an iMac from 2012 and it's a beautiful piece of reliable hardware, with a beautiful screen. However, the software is stuck on some version of macOS from years ago and so more and more applications are refusing to install. It's on life support with Firefox ESR and MacPorts (just recently — was on Homebrew). And it works fine for browsing and some light FOSS gaming. Not if Apple had their way though! They think it ought to be in the dump and I should have bought something else by now.

Well, I have a Framework 13 also, running Linux, and despite the hardware being from 2022, it's all current software. And it will continue to be, practically as long as I wish it.

So, yes, if we want to talk about value (like the author of the article), where is the value when some capricious corporation decides when you are done with your computer?

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upvoteby ildon3 hours ago|
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While I don't dispute that Apple might or might not exploit its users via software, I believe some more credit is due to a company that can produce a piece of hardware like a personal computer that runs so smoothly after 14 years that its owner complains that more software updates should still be shipped to the device. I do not know of any other device that I could but as a consumer that would last that long. The framework laptops might be an exception, but they most definitely still need to prove it.
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upvoteby bigyabai2 hours ago|
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> I do not know of any other device that I could but as a consumer that would last that long.

Are you serious? I literally have piles of 15+ year old x86 and PowerPC laptops that have perfectly functional hardware but no software support.

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upvoteby einsteinx22 hours ago|
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That iMac should easily run Linux, why not install it? Also I don’t know what else to call hardware that’s still working great 14 years later except for longevity…
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upvoteby rjrjrjrj4 hours ago|
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> I have an iMac from 2012

> Well, I have a Framework 13 also, running Linux, and despite the hardware being from 2022

Please be sure to add a comment in 2036 on how your Framework/Linux experience worked out.

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upvoteby okasaki3 hours ago|
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My thinkpad x61 from 2007 runs the latest Ubuntu and software

edit: and has the same amount of ram as the mac neo.

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upvoteby rjrjrjrj2 hours ago|
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1024x768 low-dpi display, Core 2 Duo, etc

"Runs" doing some lifting here.

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upvoteby okasaki44 minutes ago|
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You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
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upvoteby OJFord19 hours ago|
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> The point of the Framework is to run Linux

Until recently they've been almost as second-class-Linux-to-Windows as say Dell, but perhaps you just meant 'non-macOS'?

(For example, I'm currently struggling to get my early-days pre-ordered 11th gen Intel BIOS updated from v3.07 without a) the official Windows updater; b) modifying the supplied firmware on the instruction of AI or stranger third-parties in unmerged PRs/GH issues.)

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upvoteby rmunn16 hours ago|
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I'm just one datapoint, but my Framework 16 (bought a little over a year ago with no OS, has only ever had Linux installed on it) has never given me trouble with firmware updates. I've updated the BIOS twice, and other firmware, all through `fwupdmgr` with no issues. I bought the AMD chip rather than Intel, it's possible that that was why I had no issues, but I don't actually know.
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upvoteby OJFord7 hours ago|
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I'd call that pretty recent :) – fwupdmgr wasn't supported (not as in 'you're on your own', but 'blobs not published to registry') until a few years ago. EFI shell update wasn't available early on. When I say I'm trying to, I'm actually struggling to establish if it's even possible without at least using Windows to jump to a certain version after which I can use EFI/fwupdmgr.
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upvoteby teaearlgraycold21 hours ago|
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> I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission

Does this happen on MacOS? I don’t think I’ve experienced this.

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upvoteby tumult11 hours ago|
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They did once try forcing macOS 12 users to update to macOS 14, without asking for permission, and overriding any security prompts: https://eclecticlight.co/2024/02/12/can-you-avoid-a-forced-u...

This happened to me. I was able to notice it from network activity lights and stop it by disconnecting the network. Other people I know weren't so lucky.

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upvoteby boobsbr21 hours ago|
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I have a 2015 Air running El Capitain, never updated itself.
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upvoteby nicce11 hours ago|
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Just 2 days ago my MacBook closed all apps it could and tried to update from 26.3.1 to 26.5

I guess current version matters.

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upvoteby rbanffy8 hours ago|
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It’s most likely about the severity of the bugs they are fixing. I’m OK for my laptop to save my work and self upgrade if that closes a browser drive-by RCE vulnerability that could have hit me.
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upvoteby kevinrineer21 hours ago|
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For an MDM managed computer (JAMF I know for sure), it can be configured that way per a company policy. I am not 100% sure of the answer for a computer not managed by JAMF as I have not experienced a forced update while using a non-MDM managed Mac in ~1.5 years of using a pre-owned M1.
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upvoteby shepherdjerred16 hours ago|
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An MDM device is not owned by the user. Of course you’re not going to have control over the device.
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upvoteby MBCook20 hours ago|
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No.

They opt you in to it. Possibly repeatedly. But you’re never fully forced.

I realize that’s far from ideal, but as a home user you do have control still.

Staying updated is part of “the Apple way”. If you don’t like it, you’re in for a fight until your hardware loses update support.

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upvoteby commandersaki14 hours ago|
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Imagined issues.
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upvoteby IshKebab21 hours ago|
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That's not the only point of Framework. It also has to be a good laptop, and priced well enough that its repair/upgrade story actually makes sense.
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