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I'm a little bit more on the fence with the work sample interviews having designed them and also interviewed through them. I've also done my fair share of "traditional" tech interviews, all at startups, never FAANG.

As an interviewer, I much prefer the signals generated through a work-sample interview. I'm much more confident in the hiring recommendation than I get from a 1 hour zoom session. However, if I look at teams that were built through the work-sample and zoom interviews, I'm not sure the outcomes were that noticeably better.

As an interviewee, I think I understand the frustration being on the other side has. With an in-person interview, I often have a good sense that I bombed the interview or something to improve on or replay in my head, less surprising outcomes. On the work samples it's harder to know whether you're making mistakes, or are being out-competed by someone putting in 4 times the effort to polish the solution beyond what their regular work product would be. Although I had one really good outcome where the work-sample interview really flagged the internal dysfunction of a company.

And then with both interview processes, I still think there is a really big unknown on what the false no-hire rate is, how much effort is getting wasted rejecting candidates that would actually fit the team.

So having to choose a process as an interviewer, I'm with you and would always choose a work-sample interview. On whether it should be considered the "gold standard", I'm much more hesitant, I think there are some limitations that are still hard to control for.

I do wish Starfighter/Stockfighter model had gained more traction, would've been interesting to see a recruiting company specialize in this and then seeding the interview results to multiple companies model work out.

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Going through the interview process now for the first time in half a decade, and while I already would have said five years ago that I preferred work samples, that opinion is only growing stronger as I go through the process again.

Leetcode style interviews feel so stupid and divorced from the reality of the job, especially the “one weird trick” kind where you’re expected to discern the best possible solution to a problem on the spot and in a pressurized situation.

The reality of the job is usually that when you are under time pressure, a suboptimal solution that does the job is fine (to be fixed later), while if you’re working on something you know is important (hot loop code, core data structures) you have time to think about it and get it right. A leetcode interview doesn’t select for either of those things: it selects for people who have time to grind leetcode problems.

On the other hand, a work sample is realistic: a timeboxed task that you can approach in a familiar environment, without an interviewer breathing down your neck, expecting you to think out loud, railroading you to their preferred solution, etc.

As an interviewer, I always pushed for either work samples, which I quite liked, or coding interviews where we very explicitly said that we just want a working solution, which we could then talk through and look for potential improvements. We also explicitly viewed the coding interviews as being low signal, and tried to make the bar for passing low, so we could get candidates to higher signal conversations.

I do think the work sample route is a little more difficult in the LLM era, in that you are more likely to get a decent performance from a candidate who doesn’t actually know the domain, but a subsequent discussion asking them to explain their approach seems like it would be enough to ferret that out.

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As a recent interviewee, I much more prefer work samples. Less stressful, more in my control and less bound to whether I got lucky and clicked with the problem in a live interview. It's also just much more akin to what work is like, and therefore requires far less studying. The fact that live interviewing is a completely different skill to actual work is a really bad smell.
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> I'm not sure the outcomes were that noticeably better.

It's not just you. At the end of the day interviewing has been demonstrated to be close to a crapshoot in the best of circumstances, and very few interview schemes are the best of circumstances. Work samples are part of the optimal strategy [1] but even then the signal is quite low.

[1] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1998-10661-006

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Work sample interviews don't have to be take home. We ran our technical interviews as close to work samples as possible and in person.
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It would be nice to have portfolios, but systems are broken enough that that becomes hard to see. I suspect one of the reasons for the bias to hiring PHds in fields where it really isn't necessary is at least you have a work portfolio.
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Why do I care about your portfolio if I can just see how effectively you do the actual work?
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The problem with work-sample testing (which is commonly administered as a take-home problem for the developer candidate to solve) is two-fold:

a) it discriminates against people who cannot spare 4+ hours of focused time on evenings/weekends to work on the problem. People with multiple jobs, single parents, etc.

b) in the age of AI it is no longer a reliable measure of someone's skill, for obvious reasons

Unlike Yegge, I haven't worked at FAANG, but the companies I have worked at all followed the same hiring practices and suffered from the same problems as he describes.

Provisional employment (or, if that's not possible, then well-paid internships) solve all of those issues. The candidate gets 3-6 months of stable employment, you as the employer get a large number of work-sample tests, and you can see how they use AI and how much.

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I think a very real problem is that these take home problems are often way more than 4 hours. And to that they often add the traditional 4-6 hour interview loop.

Provisional employment doesn’t work for most cases, though. It might attract people who have no job and it might attract people who have so much saved that they are okay with potentially being let go after 90 days. But I imagine the vast majority of the potential employment pool are not willing to quit their current job to accept a “maybe” job from another company.

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Adding take-home problems to a traditional 4-6 hour interview loop is odious.

But the "way more than 4 hours" thing smuggles in a premise: that every candidate should be able to finish the challenge in the allotted time. But candidates with greater aptitude or conversance with the problem domain will complete work sample tests faster than candidates without, and selecting for those candidates is the point of hiring qualification.

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It depends on the details of the work sample test.

If I ask you to write me a python function to convert OSGB easting/northing into WGS84 longitude/latitude the task has a very clearly defined scope. If you knock it out in a quarter of the allotted 4 hours, you've saved time. You can't use the remaining time to go further and demonstrate your mastery.

On the other hand if I ask you to write me a website for organising photos, there's no such thing as 'done' - no matter how good you are, after 4 hours you'll still be able to think of ways to make it faster, more beautiful, more featureful, more scalable, cheaper to operate, etc

Obviously, as a hiring manager I'll notice if you've spent 40 hours on the 4 hour task - but if you've spent 6 hours maybe I just think you're a fast worker with relevant experience and sharp tools. And my sense of how far you can get is calibrated by other prospective hires; if lots of people are spending 6 hours and claiming to have spent 4, my expectations will naturally be high.

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Again, the premise is that you're exercising professional judgement. If you can't let a project go until it's perfect to a standard far past what's called for, that is itself signal. Either way: if the project budgets 4 hours, it is on you as a professional to stop at 4 hours.
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That's absurd thinking if putting in 6-8 hrs outta what everyone else is doing and what is needed to get you a job.

For all its flaws, part of the benefit of an interview is it's time bound and equal for everyone. Similar to a test.

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Look, if you want to make people do work samples from an uncomfortable conference room at your office, be my guest. I am pretty confident I speak for the majority of candidates when I say that that my preference would strongly be for the ability to work on this stuff from wherever I want to.
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I mean, that doesn't have to be how it works. You can have a both fixed amount of time, and the ability for a candidate to work in whatever environment they want.
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Of course, and if you want to do that, I've got no complaints. What we want is to eliminate pressure and scheduling inconvenience. We're also not unhappy to meet people who are not necessarily experts in our problem domain, but capable enough programmers that they can ramp up given a bit of extra time. I don't feel the slightest bit bad creating that affordance, so long as you can meet the rubric if you're an experienced professional in the time we allot.
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If you run an interview process where candidates who take 6-8 hours and claim to have taken 4 hours score highest, those are the candidates you will hire.
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All these objections rely on removing agency from the professionals applying for jobs. You look at the work sample. You use your professional judgement. You decide if it's reasonable to execute it to what you think a professional standard would be in the time allotted. You make a decision.

This isn't a college application.

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I think you're answering a different objection than they're making. Their concern is that people will choose to spend 8 hours on your 4 hour problem but then tell you they only spent 4. Then you'll think they're a leet hacker because their solution is so awesome and they did it so fast.
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Why would I think that? There's a rubric for the challenge defined up front, before anyone does it.
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No clue; it wasn’t my concern.
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Why would you design a hiring process that scores unprofessional people (by your own definition) higher than professional ones?
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Again: I am responsive to the concern that hiring processes can demand too much of candidates, and particularly to the idea that work-sample challenges are unreasonably demanding compared to interviews. That's why hiring processes I've designed over the last 10 years have all been budgeted against the time typically allotted to an interview loop. And then, to people who say "the challenges take more time than the budget, so I'm forced to spend more time", I say "if you believe that to be the case, don't do the work sample challenge".

The rest of this I'm not interested in. For as long as we've been talking about hiring processes on HN, there have always been staunch defenders of interviews. Lots of people have spent time getting good at them, there are classes on it, there are books, there are drilling exercises. I don't anticipate talking those people out of their investment in interviewing.

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> And then, to people who say "the challenges take more time than the budget, so I'm forced to spend more time"

People aren't saying that. They are saying that other candidates will put in more time. If I do a professional job in four hours, then an equally talented candidate who puts in eight hours will produce a much more polished effort, and they will get the job.

I guess the fix is to ask the candidate to pick a four hour window, and to ask them to complete the task in that time.

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Again: the rubric is defined up front. You can actually lose points for doing too much.

I understand that some people are concerned that they're competing with candidates who will put in 12 hours to do what they should be doing in 4. But that's not their problem. Their problem as a professional is to evaluate whether they can do the challenge in 4 hours; that's the expectation the job is setting.

It is perfectly reasonable for someone to look at the hiring process we're running and say "no, this communicates to me that this job wouldn't be a good fit for me". That's a good outcome! Most jobs aren't a good fit for most people; that's the whole challenge of hiring.

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Imagine I'm an employer who wants to adopt this system. How can I distinguish the candidate who spent four hours from the candidate who spent twelve?
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If you care, you enforce a time limit or have the work sample done on site. We simply don't care.
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This is theoretically true but it’s also rife with misaligned priorities. The people putting together these take home assignments have little incentive to ensure that they can be completed by a competent engineer in the allotted time. The engineers completing these assignments are definitely incentivized to underreport how long they spent on the assignment.

With AI coding this is also largely useless. These “build this thing in 4 hours” assignments come with a literal prepared prompt so that they can be churned out in 10 minutes.

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We don't ask or check how long candidates take. You're a professional, we give you a challenge, you can decide (up front, 30 minutes in, whatever) whether you're likely to be able to finish in the budgeted time. Maybe you can't because you've got a lunch date and don't have the contiguous block, and want to do it in chunks. Fine by us.

Again, the underlying smuggled premise here is that candidates have to finish the work sample. No they don't. In fact, that's a strong sign it's not an effective work sample. A test that everybody passes isn't a real test; it's just a hazing ritual.

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Just anecdotally, I can confirm that this method works great - it screened me out by showing me exactly what day to day work was like at your company, and that I was not nearly nerdy enough about specifically containerization to want to do it all day.

So you saved yourself/the team several possible hours of interviewing, and me quite a few hours - I think it took me about 10 to 15 minutes to see what you wanted in an engineer and that I was not it, and a total of 1 email which felt quite automated (whether it was or not) so there was a very low social cost as well.

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You are assuming the assignment is reasonable and the candidate is lacking if they cannot complete in the expected time. And for all I know that’s entirely true for you. What I know is that I’ve seen assignments from others where the assignment scope was unreasonable for the allotted time. And for those teams, the filter becomes not so much “is this person capable” but “is this person willing to put up with our shit”, and the teams likely don’t even realize that’s what they’ve done (because they also “don't ask or check how long candidates take”).

> Again, the underlying smuggled premise here is that candidates have to finish the work sample. No they don't. In fact, that's a strong sign it's not an effective work sample. A test that everybody passes isn't a real test; it's just a hazing ritual.

Now this is an interesting take. Usually when people talk about these take home assignments, they talk about assessing the quality of the work. How good is the design? How is the coding? Is it efficient/elegant/whatever?

Here you take a much different approach, saying that the completion itself is the filter. If one person completes your assignment in the allotted 2 hours and another needs 12 but never tells you that, do you not care about that discrepancy?

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We do assess all of those things. Again: you're a professional. We give you a work sample test. You look at it, and use your best professional judgement to decide if it is (a) reasonable and (b) doable in the budgeted time given your capabilities. If either is untrue, you don't do the work sample.

I'm having a real hard time seeing how this isn't strictly better than an interview, which, as the article (and basically everything written in the last year about interviews) points out, is basically a random function.

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A standard interview loop kills an entire work day, and is preceded by phone interviews that eat several hours. Properly budgeted work samples are strictly better from the candidate's time perspective, not to mention that you can do them from your couch rather than under flourescent lights in a confeence room.

The AI thing is an interesting problem, but a solvable one. We continue to hire resume-blind.

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The question is whether companies would tolerate their own process if their employees did that recruiting process at a different company. They obviously do to some extent via plausible deniability; I have a 1 hour "doctors" appointment this afternoon, or I'm taking leave on Monday. Using it as cover to attend an interview.

Would this company permit an employee taking 3 months unpaid leave to provisional hire somewhere else and have free choice whether they stay or go at the end of it.

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I feel like you could get around the AI bit by asking about components and what they do, rationale for decisions, etc. If someone can't speak to it, it should be a clear tell.
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We hire entirely based on work sample testing, and there's a lot of stuff you can do to make it work in with AI-equipped candidates; I'm not prepared to write it up at the moment, but you start by recognizing that everybody is going to be using AI and designing the tests accordingly, and by relying on unassisted interactive challenges as a component of the process.
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As long as you are talking to them face to face; over the phone they will use AI with speech recognition and parrot its response, erasing all signal. Then the interview becomes all about AI detection.
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I've been hearing these kinds of things since 2014 (when I wrote a long post about the work sample process we had used at Matasano). I've been hiring continuously since 2008, so 18 years, and in that entire time I have never come close to hiring a scammer.

It might be a more salient concern now, in the era of AI agents, and we are much warier today than I was at Matasano, but generally I think this risk is more talked about than experienced.

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>> A standard interview loop kills an entire work day, and is preceded by phone interviews that eat several hours. Properly budgeted work samples are strictly better from the candidate's time perspective, not to mention that you can do them from your couch rather than under flourescent lights in a confeence room.

Yes, standard interview loops also discriminate, and the more time they take, the more discriminatory they are. Any on-site requirements compound the issues.

Like Yegge says: provisional employment/internships solve all of these issues. You get the best of all worlds: stable employment for the candidate where they get paid a regular wage and aren't under a stressful interview setting, and lots and lots of work samples for you, the employer. It's not perfect. For example, it can be difficult to entrust the provisional employee/intern with anything impactful if you don't know whether they'll be employed at the end. But it is significantly better than the alternatives in most contexts.

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Provisional employment does not work. It requires candidates to leave their jobs before they know whether they have a secure job with your firm. I concede that provisional hires are higher-signal than work sample testing (or rather: that they're the platonic ideal of work sample testing), but the entire problem of hiring qualification is to make decisions in the context of a candidate doing a job search.
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>> Provisional employment does not work. It requires candidates to leave their jobs before they know whether they have a secure job with your firm.

It works. I’ve seen it in two different places.

At the second one, the fundamental realization I came to was that it is virtually no different than “regular” employment, where the new employee can get fired for not meeting expectations within an arbitrary time period after being hired. This can be months, or even weeks. From the perspective of the candidate, regular employment and provisional employment have roughly the same level of risk: in both cases they take a job where they might be let go at some point. The benefit of provisional employment is that they know how long they will be evaluated for and against whom. It turns out a lot of candidates do in fact like the all-cards-on-the-table approach and enjoy being given the opportunity to prove themselves on the job.

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Everything will "work" in the sense of you'll eventually get somebody in the job. To me, it's self-evident that a process that disqualifies everybody unwilling to work for weeks speculatively isn't actually working, at a minimum because it DQs most (probably all) competitive candidates. But yes, your mileage may vary.
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Provisional employment only makes sense if you work remotely and have full benefits (esp. healthcare). Moving is costly.
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A committed or indefinite term of employment is itself a benefit, so if you're going to work on a temporary basis you should expect contractor returns, not FTE comp; revise your baseline up 150%-200%.

Nobody does this, of course, but then provisional employment is a silly idea to begin with.

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We do all our work samples in person at a our offices as part of the in person interviews. Takes 2-3 hours, never been a problem so far.

If you are going to take a day off to do 3-4 in person interviews at a company then this slots in well.

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