upvote
> It's been kept around because they treat their customers ok, but they absolutely exsanguinate their developers.

This is true, but "treat their customers ok" goes a long way. When everybody else severely abuses their customers, the one company that doesn't generates a lot of goodwill.

reply
Eh, Steam is kind of like the liberal democratic US empire. It may be evil in a lot of ways but it could actually be a LOT worse. We may actually historically be very lucky to have had a non-shittificationmaxxing games platform for a couple decades, just like we were lowkey lucky that the world was briefly ruled by a somewhat democratic country.. Enjoy both while they last, may not be around long.
reply
> just like we were lowkey lucky that the world was briefly ruled by a somewhat democratic country

This is just what you tell yourself to feel comfortable about living as a beneficiary of the empire. From the perspective of those invaded, there is no difference. Do you think in Vietnam they thought "I'm glad it is a democratic nation dropping dropping 7.5 million tons of bombs on us and raping our villagers, it would be so much worse if they were authoritarian!". Do you think in Cuba they think, "I'm glad it is a democratic nation that is blockading our entire economy, condemning us into poverty". Do you think in Iran they think "I am glad it is a democratic nation that assassinated our leader and bombed our school"?

reply
Steam is also a child gambling company that sells loot boxes to kids but it could be a lot worse. From the perspective of someone getting ripped off it doesn't matter whether it was Gaben who scammed you, but he and his empire could still be a lot worse overall.

You're allowed to say what you just said in that post without getting taken away at night and your family never talking about you again. Or a drone taking you out while you sleep. Palantir logs all our comments and it would be trivially easy for them if there weren't still some lingering democratic handrails holding them back.

You're also typing on a computer on HN, so you're a "beneficiary of the empire" regardless of where you live. As someone who apparently reads leftist theory you should know to look at the big picture on world-historical questions rather than getting emotional, like the people who say USSR was just as evil as WW2 Germany because it also killed gormillions of people.

Democracy in the US is dying and may not last another generation. It was something that helped imperial workers and limited the power of the ruling elite, like unions. Unions, like democracy as a whole, are dying. Unions were also corrupt and complicit in imperialist war crimes during the Cold war. Unions in the West have always been connected to labor aristocracy and imperialism. That said, unions as a whole are still a good thing. We should still mourn the decline of labor unions and miss the days when they kept the elite in check and allowed so many working people to live a decent life.

Steam is also likely to become an ordinary ripoff company one day soon. I will miss this historical aberration among pure ripoff services. Just like I will miss being able to vote and dissent without drones zapping me.

reply
> You're allowed to say what you just said in that post without getting taken away at night and your family never talking about you again. Or a drone taking you out while you sleep. Palantir logs all our comments and it would be trivially easy for them if there weren't still some lingering democratic handrails holding them back.

I don't live in the US. The US is not going to start a war with my country to kill some random internet commenter for criticising them, even if they could identify me. They certainly will arrest Americans for speaking out[1], but although the domestic situation is becoming even worse than it already was, it was never anything like your propaganda would have you believe. The American government slaughtered students for protesting the Vietnam War[2] and yet the brainwashed masses can't stop boasting about how free their country is, it would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.

[1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47342776 [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

> As someone who apparently reads leftist theory

You don't need to read leftist theory to be opposed to American imperialism, you simply need to not be American, or else be a non-nationalist American with a conscience (exceedingly rare, I am aware). I do understand that it is difficult for American commenters to conceive that they could be speaking to someone who is not American, given the usual belief that the US is the center of the universe.

> also typing on a computer on HN, so you're a "beneficiary of the empire" regardless of where you live

Speaking of which, "computers/the internet wouldn't have been invented if not for the US" is a classically arrogant American thing to say.

reply
Now you're just straw manning, and misrepresenting history, Kent State led to a huge increase in protests and troop mutinies which forced the US to leave Vietnam. If the US was fascist it would have sent tanks into the streets and dropped nukes.

Also misquoting me at the end, my point is you must be connected to the global tech economy which is still dominated by US capital, but go on and larp if you want.

You assumed I'm American I can assume you are too. Your manufactured fatalist narrative seems to suggest people to larp instead of using democratic methods to resist the far right, that thinking has been been heavily pushed by the elites on social media in the US to discredit and disorganize the left.

I think we're also historically lucky that China is ruled by the CPC, whatever you dislike about them it could be much worse, a few historical accidents going differently and it could just as easily be a Han fascist government invading all its neighbors. Be grateful for what you have before it's gone. Steam is one of the last unshittified apps remaining in existence.

reply
> Kent State led to a huge increase in protests and troop mutinies which forced the US to leave Vietnam.

This is not my understanding of the matter. Apparently only 11% of Americans were in support of the students, with the majority supporting the troops. Granted, my source for this is the Wikipedia article, which I am well aware of the deficiencies of. If you have recommended reading that suggests Kent State was significantly influential on the outcome of future protests and US withdrawal, I'm open to it.

> my point is you must be connected to the global tech economy which is still dominated by US capital

I work for a bootstrapped Turkish startup with no outside capital, American or otherwise, but try again :) or is America, center of the universe as it is, responsible for the existence of all tech economies everywhere?

> Your manufactured fatalist narrative seems to suggest people to larp instead of using democratic methods to resist the far right,

Uh, my what? What? I'm simply disputing the irritating claim that we're oh-so-lucky to have had benevolent American overlords and how it could've been much worse. I honestly don't know if it could've been much worse. At a certain threshold of outright evilness, you get the entire world uniting against you, as Germany saw. America manages to perfectly straddle the line such that it can be the most optimally amount of evil and still get away with it unchecked for centuries. Internally, it committed the degree of atrocities that inspired the Nazis -- Lebensraum is rebranded Manifest Destiny, and the Jim Crow laws were studied as the blueprint for by-the-books legalised discrimination against Jews, but externally, it managed diplomacy much better, conducting just the right frequency of invasions with just the right propaganda massaging not to find itself at war with everyone at once.

For whatever it's worth, I agree that we're lucky to have Valve/Steam for all its faults. It is a flawed company that could be much worse. I don't know why you felt the need to relate it to America.

reply
Developers, like gamers, are the most oppressed people.
reply
I'd question the idea that they treat developers poorly. Epic Games Store exists and Famously beats Steam (and others) over the head by charging only a 12% fee

Hell, they even buy timed exclusive access to certain games

And yet. Steam persists

reply
I lack an informed opinion on the matter but I have to wonder what you think the one thing has to do with the other? Developers have very little choice but to go where the customers are.
reply
Why aren't the customers going to Epic Game Store? It's the PC, after all. It's explicitly not a walled garden
reply
EGS has yet to reach the feaure parity of Steam from 15 years ago.
reply
The Epic Game Store is just kind of mid. The app feels spammy, the game selection is less, and it doesn't really offer anything over the existing options beyond the monthly free game gimmick. If they want customers to head there it needs to be better, not just good enough.
reply
Who knows? Presumably because Steam hasn't done anything to drive them off, they've generally been satisfied with the service, and the titles they want are available. At least that would be my guess based on my personal experience but I assume Valve has a much better grasp of their audience than I do.
reply
Having worked in the games industry for long time, everyone is constantly trying in vain to escape the 30% tax.
reply
It’s fascinating how (mostly western liberal) game developers argue in favor of 99% taxes for general population “for maintaining infrastructure” and yet cannot fathom paying a fee for maintaining actual infrastructure that is necessary for their business to function.
reply
I'm not familiar with whatever strawman you're invoking here.

By "everyone" I mean game studio owners. They're desperate to not pay 30% to Valve / Sony / Apple / whatever.

The vast majority of people that work at game studios don't really care about that, they see a shrinking fraction of the profits of their employers and worsening conditions.

reply
The epic games launcher that famously takes 46 seconds to launch. It’s cost them 100s of millions and they refuse to fix it.
reply
> Epic Games Store exists and Famously beats Steam (and others) over the head by charging only a 12% fee

https://www.fortnite.com/news/fortnite-developers-will-soon-...

Unless you're inside Fortnite, where Epic takes a 63% cut of any 'in game item' you sell, and you don't have a choice of storefront inside the game.

Rules for me, but not for thee, so sayeth Timmy Tencent as he collects his next ten cents of revenue from a twelve year old.

reply
The Epic store is horrendously slow though. I bought a few games there but in practice the client is just so slow that I avoid it if I can.
reply
Totally agreed. I'm building a Steam competitor, that's web-based (WebGPU/WASM) as well as cross-platform. Light on games atm, but the goal is to replicate over time virtually every feature Steam has to offer, as well as more. You can check out a preview of the portal here:

https://gameselect-knvxf8av.manus.space/

reply
What lets you host Monkeyball like that. Are you going to port Xonotic to WASM?
reply
He already did lol, just didn't update the main website. Doesn't work very well for me, but it's something.

https://www.reddit.com/r/xonotic/comments/1tyqx5w/i_ported_x...

reply
Starting a sustainable steam competitor with piracy sure seems like a great idea!
reply
The background music is ripped from the PS5 home menu too.
reply
deleted
reply