LLMs are allowed. [0]
reply> You are free to use whatever tools you wish to write your code. This includes tools that are AI based, LLM (large language model), Virtual coding assistants, code generators, or similar tools, as well as your own tools. The IOCCC judges do not discriminate on the basis of the tools used to write obfuscated C code so long as you are the ultimate author of the code you submit.
In my experience LLMs were pretty good at deobfuscating many entries (including mine) but very awful at generating any significantly obfuscated code. So obfuscation can be regarded as a truly humane art---at least for now.
replyI pointed Claude Opus 4.7 at my Forth entry ( https://github.com/ioccc-src/winner/blob/master/2025/ncw3/pr... ) and it absolutely refused to have anything to do with it citing security violations and accusing me of creating malware :-)
replyClaude seems OK with it now, so I don't know whether that was a glitch but it was quite funny.
I was talking to a Claude Opus 4.7 chatbot about low-discrepancy sequences and made the mistake of framing a thought experiment as "deceiving" a vendor who owns a scrambler by making a hard to scramble low-discrepancy sequence generator. Admittedly that sounds sketchy but the conversation up to that point--without the explicit framing--was about the same subject just shorn of metaphor. With the framing I got a refusal message that likened my request to Dual_EC_DRBG!
replywell, at some point I (like after 5 hours of CC) I can swear im looking at pure random coming out. so perhaps the ability of LLMs to make complex stuff even more complex, would be beneficial. obfuscation, after all, is not about having performant code, but an art form, right?
reply/curious though given the very nice conversation we're having here, why the parent topic gets down-voted. is neither off-topic, nor rude.../
I think the "obfuscation" is actually two very different acts: the apparent obfuscation, that is concerned with randomly looking output, and the information-theoretic obfuscation, that takes computational effort to undo it. Commercial obfuscators are mostly the former, making undo much more annoying but easy to undo if you have a right tool. The obfuscation in IOCCC is much more the latter, requiring the heavy logic and deduction to see through that. In my experience LLMs have been capable of doing the former and undoing the latter but not doing the latter, presumably because any obfuscated program still has to run somehow. Given that this form of obfuscation is not common (and that LLMs tend to work well with established things), your initial statement was I believe quite far-fetched.
replyI mean they can generate 1 million lines of code, it's obfuscation by brute force, how are you going to read that if not with another LLM
replyIOCCC disallows such entries for the obvious reason ;-)
replyIt's a bit annoying getting frontier models to even work on IOCCC code because of "safety", but even if you get around that LLMs just aren't very good at it. Obfuscating code involves a level of creativity and deviousness that LLMs struggle to meet.
replyMaybe, but it can't make the gameboy code look like a gameboy too, unless asked to, and that probably would not work even. That's the difference between an LLM and a human, and that's what make this competition worthwhile.
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