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It's hardly a whim if a game runs 15 years, they announce "our active playerbase is 60 people" and the game shuts down.

I think we need to stop treating it as a dichotomy.

There's an understanding it won't last forever, when you buy a multiplayer game, ans making devs make offline versions in the cases where its trivial is going to bite indie game studios.

Gamers have repeatedly shown they dont like subs. Its hard to model "we want to charge you 40 cents per month, escalating with inflation" but thats what youre asking for

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Gaming companies did not need to insert themselves into the process in the first place. I could conceivably continue to locally run Doom, Quake, Unreal Tournament, etc forever because there is no external server component.
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Not every game has a server architecture like that. There's been a Renaissance of indie multuplayer due to good libraries and third party dependencies.

Pretending that not doing that is bad design would have a chilling effect on novel games.

I'd be 100% for "if your game has an easily releasable server you have to release it on EoS" but this bill isn't it.

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Maybe it’s better to start in a smaller, more focused and less controversial topic to set some precedents before trying to boil the ocean.
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“Ah, but you didn’t buy a thing, you bought a license to temporarily use a thing in ways we deemed acceptable!” -publishers somewhere
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I don't see how the publisher is relevant here. It would be the developer saying that.
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"deemed". the past tense is doing a lot of work here.
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"Here's a device we sold you, but when you first turn it on you need to sign this 30 page contract which says you actually don't own the device, if you are mad at us you have to go to our preferred arbitration, and we reserve the right to turn your device off at any time on a whim because you left a bad review somewhere. Sign it or enjoy your worthless brick which we will not refund. Oh, and now every single manufacturer requires the same thing for this device class. So you can either have a washing machine or hand wash your cloths in your bathtub".

These sorts of EULA should be flat out illegal.

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My opinion is that is a fraudulent rental masquerading as a sale.

And any and all EULAs or similar documents presented after a sale should be completely null and void. But any corporation attempting to that should be fined a signficant portion of their revenue. Past that, dissolution of company.

But no, we live in a shit society that someone who signs up for a demo of Disney+ and then has his wife die due to bad food, and they tried to slap indefinite arbitration on him.

https://lawreview.missouri.edu/infinite-arbitration-how-one-...

This whole country feels like one big fucking company store scam.

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Yeah, contract law is simply busted here. If it were sane, these contracts would be deemed null and void. In fact, common contract law does require that both sides be compensated. It doesn't require fair or reasonable compensation and that's the big problem.

But I think there is an argument to be made that the EULA has no compensation. Since payment has already been made for the product, it's completely one sided.

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1. Yes.

2. It's not just a country. Sadly this is a worldwide problem, this is the global standard. And it's sickening.

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That’s the exact excuse used by the publisher in the article.
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Yeah, it's frankly ridiculous that "smart" devices need internet access. Why shouldn't my smart oven behave exactly like my Brother printer? There's no reason my oven needs access to the internet, it can do everything it needs to do on my local network. My phone should be able to connect directly to it via a scan of the local network subnet or using any number of service announcement technologies that already exist.

And it makes these devices worse. I should be able to control my oven using a simple REST api and home assistant. The fact that in order to interact with my oven with a home assistant I first have to reach out to my manufacture servers is just insane. It's an oven. It only has so many sensors and nobs to twist.

About the only grace I give these manufacturers is the fact that google and apple both make it an annoying pain to maintain applications in their app store. A manufacturer can't simply drop "oven app" once and expect it to be available on the store forever. But that too should be solved with the same regulation that says "Ovens, refrigerators, washing machines, thermostats, and doorbells must not connect to the internet". We can teach the world about VPNs if they want remotely access their devices.

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> About the only grace I give these manufacturers is the fact that google and apple both make it an annoying pain to maintain applications in their app store. A manufacturer can't simply drop "oven app" once and expect it to be available on the store forever.

If the app doesn't use the Internet then the natural way to provision it is to have it pre-loaded on the device anyway. Why should the goal of "avoid needing to hit the manufacturer's servers" involve hitting Google's servers?

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  It should not be allowed for a developer or device manufacturer to kill or nerf any product remotely, once it was bought and paid for.
This is silly. No developer should be obligated to support an online game forever.

Imagine a highly complex online game that requires a few people and tens of thousands a month in cloud costs to keep it running. Now imagine that this game is 25 years old and only has 100 players total left. Are you saying that this developer must maintain the exact same quality of online play for 100 people?

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So release the server code as OSS, data necessary to function & support community servers. Even in a crappy hard-to-support way, the community will usually figure out a way.

IMO, the move from community servers over to matchmaking & vendor only servers being the only viable option was a huge disservice to the long-levity of games. If I find the code around here, I could still get a Tremulous server running today for a few bucks, even if I haven't played that game for 20+ years.

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Releasing the server code isn't always ideal. There's likely a ton of secrets, hardcoding, and exploits.
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The comment you are replying to doesn't argue any such thing, and is pretty clear in its explanation of how your position is perfectly compatible with what is requested.
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The author is arguing for it.

This is what the post was saying:

1. No nerfing to the game/service whatsoever. This means you can't just kill online play. Ever.

2. Charge a monthly price or significantly increase the purchasing price.

Clearly neither of these are viable for most games and the game industry.

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Nobody has a problem with rentals. Just be up front with the terms and don't try to pretend it's a sale.
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what is truly silly, is the practice of online requirements, to operate software.
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That game is called World Of Warcraft.

It had its server reimplemented by enthusiasts [1] with no access to this "one of a kind cloud" for decades now. Heck it even supposedly had game client ported to new engine [2].

> B-but we can't release the binaries due to licensing...

Release the source. As a developer you should be able to write code that allows to stub out all the propriety parts. The community will replace your speedtrees, matchmaking, netcode, anticheats and so on.

Change is hard we get it, but the excuses are on par with any other industry..

[1] https://www.getmangos.eu/

[2] https://turtlecraft.gg/remastered

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> excuses

Exactly!

If you ever want a clear demonstration of the phrase "litany of excuses", all you have to do is post online calling for a game company to provide any kind of post-sale support or user-friendly EOL plan for their game.

1. "Game companies don't make any money, so they can't provide any development support after the sale, which barely pays for initial development!"

2. "Game companies are under immense time pressure so they can't waste time on EOL plans or developing the server to be eventually severable and releasable!"

3. "Game companies cannot release the server binaries because of vague licensing reasons!"

4. "Game companies cannot release the server source code because of other vague licensing reasons and secret sauce IP!"

5. "Game companies cannot release the server source code because of cheating!"

6. "Game companies might not even have the server source code when it's time to EOL the online service! You can't expect them to save a backup!"

7. "The game company might shut down and that means they have to just suddenly pull the plug!"

8. "Servers are expensive and complicated to run, and surely the community wouldn't be able to do it!"

9. "The server source might not compile anymore, and surely the community wouldn't be able to fix it!"

You'll hear variations of these excuses and others whenever you suggest these guys lift even a finger to non-disruptively turn down their game.

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