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Do you know how many jobs there will be on Mars? Go west young man...
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At least, Trillions+ I'd guess if I read the project right? :-D
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They are are hiring AI Ethics Officers for robots deciding who gets the last potato.
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Rovers of Wrath? East of Olympus Mons?

The next great American novels.

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The upside is c) exponential acceleration in wealth inequality
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you know how many r are in strawberry
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> When exactly are the upsides going to hit?

Never. At this point I think the only way out is a Sea Peoples[1] level of collapse. Maybe they'll call it the Late Chip Age collapse. People will not put with with being obsoleted. Americans at least have the means to resist. The rest of us will probably need 3D printers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse

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You can reply to emails faster and so have more time for hobbies. /s
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I’m very on the pro-ai side (check my comment history for proof), but this “ai will give us more free time” logic is seeming more and more patronizing (to be clear, I understand that you are being sarcastic haha).

I was listening to a podcast a couple days ago and Brad Gerstner was on and mentioned that with how AI is boosting productivity that perhaps one member of a household would be able to start staying home from work if they wanted. I shut off the podcast after that (to be fair, the podcast just seemed to be one massive SpaceX IPO pump).

It’s just so divorced from reality and every new advancement is just making *higher expectations for doing more work*.

The unfortunate reality is: Companies that are selling ai will sell that ai will make life easier. Companies that are buying ai will demand more from employees using ai (why else would they buy it?).

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Just as happened with the horse, with the car, with the steam machine, with the industrialization in general, ... oh wait, we still have to work 8-10 hours 5 days a week, times two, to make enough for a living.

So when exactly is this productivity going to hit that doubles my income?

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I guess the argument would go that your income is significantly higher in the sense that the quantity and complexity of stuff that you can afford now is vastly greater than 100 years ago (e.g. washing machines, cars, clothes, computers). I’m not that saying it’s making anyone happier, mind you
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This is likely mostly nullified by the consumerism hellscape that's being forced on us i.e. stuff lasts less time and we have to buy more often.

Still a win but not as big as many are selling it.

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Don't forget most people are stuck renting a small apartment at a significant percentage of income for eternity. Then if you hit the layoff jackpot and become homeless, then I've got good news for you: homelessness is illegal now.
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It's all a matter of perspective. 100 years ago, the middle class' purchasing power is far bigger.

Compared to 50 years ago, the middle class is getting poorer.

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The typical middle class family 50 years ago lived in a house you’d consider small and dingy, ate food you’d consider poverty meals, and drove a car you’d consider a poorly assembled death trap. Ask your parents or grandparents how often they got to have real butter growing up.
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This is a truth very few people are willing to confront. My grandmother lived in a village, on a farm, growing her own food and slaughtering her own animals, with no working plumbing, using a well for water. Of course a lot of that changed even just moving up to the 70s, but at that point there still wasn't quite the consumerist "buy whatever you want from wherever and whomever you want and have it almost immediately" environment. I can go to a grocery store here in Canada, buy tropical fruits year round that grow nowhere near me. I never have to concern myself with "this ingredient won't be here because it is seasonal", it'll be there, it'll just be more expensive out of season, worst case I just have to go a bit farther out to a different grocer than I usually go to.
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Or fresh oranges.
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Yep. With ai tooling I can keep prompting at 3am while sleep deprived. As a result I have mountains of slop plans / code to review. Hours of work which can't be matched by anyone who thinks they can poke a prompt for the day & go
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[flagged]
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Toothpaste making did not completely take over the world's supply of plastic for caps.
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Personally, I can do more than I could before as the result of AI.

Honestly I could "retire" to a senior level role and have AI do 90% of my work and nobody would know the difference.

The benefits COULD hit by employers reducing everybody's hours.

The blocker to this is the middle management disease where there's a class of people who spend 40+ hours a week in some kind of update meeting or another and that much talking can't be replaced by AI. (much of it could be replaced by just not doing it any more but that's a different story)

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> I can do more than I could before as the result of AI

Are you getting paid more or are you just doing more for fun.

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You can't shift productivity by 10X and expect the rest of the supply/demand equilibrium to stay the same, with you working 10% of the time and sipping drinks on the beach while retaining the same job opportunities and expected salaries.

There will be increased competition for job openings, reductions in real wages, or increased expectations of productivity. Probably some combination of all three.

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No, but you could cut everybody to 30 hour workweeks and hire more people.

Once it becomes the norm even for a small section of the economy it will spread.

People are more productive in an absolute sense working fewer hours anyway.

It just takes a union, an ambitious company, or a state to force that 30 hour workweek to show some success with better talent attraction and retention and better corporate results to start a trend.

It is possible for everybody to get a piece of the pie.

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Strongly agree. Reduce the work week today to 4 days 32 hours, the US already generates $5T in profits per year. That is time taken from workers from the one life they get. If corporations want to be more productive, take your best shot with LLMs. If it works, great, we keep reducing the work week. If it doesn't work, well, take it up with who sold you the magic beans.

We are already productive enough to have a shorter work week and more leisure, anyone saying no has specific incentives to not support it (either via financial gain from the capital accumulation funnel or work bound to their identity).

https://hn.algolia.com/?q=4+day+week

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It is not.

Eventually a new startup will replace your large inefficient employer with people working 10% of their time.

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So tax them as much as needed, or require state ownership of some amount. Startups, and company entities in general, exist because a jurisdiction allows them to, or allows them to accept payments, control accounts with financial resources, pay vendors and workers, and operate within a commercial framework. That is a privilege, not a right. The rules are a shared agreement and delusion, the rules can change at any time.
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It would be one thing if those increases in productivity were improving my QOL as a consumer of produced goods, through cost reductions or increases in quality, but I'm not seeing any of that.

All that seems to be happening is that these productivity gains roll up as profits for the owner class.

What's the point of all that, to me?

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It's easier to enter the owner class. It's easier for you to do a startup where you're not the expert in everything. It's easier for you to rely less on buying things when you can make them yourself.

The moat of the owner class is lower because now information is everywhere and it's less possible to hide behind trade secrets and implementation effort.

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> It's easier to enter the owner class.

Based on what? The macroeconomics don't work out that way. IF productivity goes up, but consumption does not, that means that it's harder to enter the owner class, because fewer productive enterprises (owned by non-working people) are supplying a larger share of customer demand.

This may make a difference on the margins for people in the software bubble. But for the other 8 billion people on the planet, they aren't all going to become owners in your brave new world, unless consumer demand goes to the moon to soak up all that productivity. It's not doing that. Prices aren't dropping. Quality isn't increasing.

If you think I'm wrong - is there a cross-economy explosion of small one-person businesses that I'm somehow not seeing? Are gigacorps across the board all losing market share? Because on the macro scale I see nothing but further consolidation.

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>Based on what?

Based on the far lower bar to get a product out the door.

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I could “retire” to a senior level role and run at 10% capacity with zero AI use at a bigco and nobody would know the difference.
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Doesn't that mean your org could find someone 10% as productive as you and fire you? We seem to ignore that side of things.

Concretely: if you can do 90% of your work with AI, someone else can also do that same work, making you interchangeable unless that 10% is really important.

I think this is partly why it's so hard for people to find jobs right now. Everyone is interchangeable thanks to AI, so skill gives you less of an edge than it did in the past.

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> Concretely: if you can do 90% of your work with AI, someone else can also do that same work

That's the part that is not true. Prompting and guard-rails and generally harness engineering do matter a lot lately. Seen it first-hand multiple times, especially after I used Fable 5 for a week.

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Sure, a good senior director or technical CTO could phone it in and do my job, but there aren't as many of those.

Jobs were hard to find in the drawback after the COVID hiring boom in uncertain times as the result of Trump, inflation, tariffs, war, and the constantly impending but pushed off market crash we've been expecting since before COVID started. I'm not saying AI isn't contributing, but it's hardly the only factor.

AI is far cheaper to fire than a person.

"Everyone is interchangable" isn't quite right, a tremendous amount of people don't actually add all that much value and a lot of work is just running on a hamster wheel and now instead of taking time we've got a machine for running on hamster wheels for us.

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Somebody will eventually know the difference.

And then you’re fired.

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> I could "retire" to a senior level role and have AI do 90% of my work and nobody would know the difference.

They would notice, and then they would fire 9/10 of the people in your role. If you are unlucky, you get laid off. If you are lucky, you get to botsit full time for the workload of 10 engineers for less pay and no career advancement.

This would last until they figure out how to remove the human from the loop entirely.

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Nobody has noticed where I work. I'm thinking of getting a second job, actually.

Key factors for me:

  - Company is full of old school engineers who seem to hate AI and will scrutinize every command it runs.  Means that even though we're both 'using' AI, I'm still way more productive.
  - Said engineers have too much inside knowledge of the horrific system they made that management can't possibly get rid of them.  Helps that they're workers-rights minded too.
  - Company has enough revenue to keep up payroll indefinitely.
That last part is probably the biggest risk, but we're in kind of a niche industry. Not really a big, juicy target.

Now, does the AI write good code? Often not. But the codebase is already terrible, so it's no big difference.

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Well, it's a mania, it's stupid now and it will correct itself. There will be pain. There's always pain after stupidity. Then we will see if LLMs are as useful as we were told.
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The only correction will be anyone not in the concentrated wealth part being left out to rot. There is no upside for pretty much anyone posting on hacker news
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That’s not correction though, that’s perpetuation or acceleration of last 40 years‘ trend.

Not that I disagree otherwise though.

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