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by jorisw13 hours ago |
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upvoteby Gigachad13 hours ago|
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They have internal consistency. The iOS version looks like the macos version which looks like the web version, etc.

This upsets HN users but the rest of the world decided that apps looking like windows built ins doesn't matter.

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upvoteby ahartmetz12 hours ago|
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It's more like developers decided - nobody asked the users.
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upvoteby debazel12 hours ago|
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ironically the only group of users I've found that actually care about native UI, are other developers and Mac purist.
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upvoteby ahartmetz12 hours ago|
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I have seen users having trouble with pixel soup UIs. They may not think "This should be in a native toolkit", but they do think "How the hell do I subscribe to a folder in the new Outlook?".
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upvoteby whizzter11 hours ago|
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Right, but bad UI's was not uncommon before webviews, if anything the spartan-ness of the web often simpified patterns whilst reliance on weird hotkeys in desktop apps isn't uncommon.
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upvoteby ahartmetz7 hours ago|
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>reliance on weird hotkeys in desktop apps isn't uncommon

The only examples I can think of are actions that are intentionally not easy to reach. How exactly it's done is platform-specific, but the (mis)feature doesn't come from the platform and can be implemented in other ways on other platforms.

- Apple UIs hide some power user functionality behind obscure hotkeys

- Similar: Shift-Delete to permanently delete (Windows, KDE) - Similar: Shift-right click to "Open With..." (Windows, KDE)

- In desktop apps that FOR SOME REASON try to look more like web apps, the hidden menu bar can be restored with Alt or Alt-M (Firefox, KDE)

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upvoteby Gigachad11 hours ago|
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The problem in these usability cases is pretty much always layout and constant redesigns rather than the exact theme the button has. I've seen plenty of unusable native ui soup UIs and very clean and simple custom UIs.
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upvoteby ahartmetz11 hours ago|
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You could call it the exact theme when a clickable UI element looks just like regular text (it was not inside any kind of button-like shape in the Outlook case that I saw), but it's super common to have that in web-based UIs.
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upvoteby ahartmetz5 hours ago|
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(And of course, nobody changed any theme in the outlook case)
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upvoteby lonelyasacloud4 hours ago|
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> ironically the only group of users I've found that actually care about native UI, are other developers and Mac purist.

One group of people who routinely carry the can for poor product usability and another who by definition care about the Mac platform; entirely what would be expected.

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upvoteby gf00012 hours ago|
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Consistent like what? Like maybe a decade ago one could say that osx was consistent, but nowadays even SwiftUI and cocoa is visibly different, let alone every second app that uses electron. And people don't care.

Windows has like 4 frameworks available on a bare new, latest OS install, just go deep enough in the "settings" or whatever they call it, and you can reach down to winforms. And on top the start menu is a react element!

(And in Linux you have the gtk and the qt world, and everything else)

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upvoteby 6 hours ago|
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upvoteby 6 hours ago|
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upvoteby jorisw10 hours ago|
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> SwiftUI and cocoa is visibly different

Do they render different looking buttons?

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upvoteby port1110 hours ago|
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OS-level consistency is also consistency. It depends what we value. A lot of apps’ design could’ve been basic, OS-like UI. Apps such as GymBook or WhatsApp are internally consistent while still adopting many elements from the system’s design, instead of reinventing the wheel.
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upvoteby eterevsky12 hours ago|
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Within OS consistency is much less of thing a thing than Web design conventions. Windows by itself has had several different UI frameworks over the years, so different "native" Windows programs can look completely different from each other.
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upvoteby oneeyedpigeon10 hours ago|
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> Within OS consistency is much less of thing a thing than Web design conventions.

Sorry, are you saying that two random web apps will typically share more UI consistency than two random Windows apps? Because, although I'm not currently familiar with Windows, I would be amazed if that were true.

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upvoteby oneeyedpigeon10 hours ago|
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There are two types of consistency in this context: consistency within an OS and consistency across them. I, too, prefer the first because I only really use one OS, but this preference varies. I don't think it's right to say that the first case = "ui toolkit", but the second case doesn't.
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upvoteby jorisw10 hours ago|
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Consistency as a design virtue applies to a single user's experience. This means consistency within the OS.
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upvoteby DonHopkins10 hours ago|
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A foolish consistency with terribly designed shallow superficial desktop user interfaces dreamed up by overpaid cocaine addled corporate boutique brand designers with not only no experience but actual burning contempt for usability and human factors and accessability and affordances is the hobgoblin of little minds.

https://daringfireball.net/2025/12/bad_dye_job

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upvoteby jorisw10 hours ago|
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Yes, Dye botched [mac/i/tv/etc]OS 26.

That doesn't say anything about the value of whatever UI kit is in place, being shared consistently by apps. A virtue that, apparent from this thread, is no longer universally shared.

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upvoteby p-e-w12 hours ago|
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That’s why HN users constantly advocate for Vim, a program in which every single thing works completely differently from every other modern application.
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upvoteby vintermann11 hours ago|
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Yes, if there's one lesson from historical UI research that still holds, it's that mode switching is expensive. That's why people install vi plugins everywhere.

Wait...

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upvoteby p-e-w8 hours ago|
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Vi plugins don’t even exist for the vast majority of applications.
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upvoteby vintermann3 hours ago|
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The last resort is to switch to ROU mode (key combo for entering it is :wq)
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upvoteby m-schuetz11 hours ago|
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Consistency is the reason why Electron is great. Consistency of the UI across operating systems.
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upvoteby d12bb10 hours ago|
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Great for the developer. The user doesn’t use Mac, Windows and Linux. Just one for work and one at home, with mostly different apps, so they couldn’t care less if it looks the same on different platforms.
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upvoteby m-schuetz10 hours ago|
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They may care, however, if they get anything at all. I do not have the resources to target something to all platforms, so the alternative wouldn't be "Users get UI targeted towards their OS", the alternative would be "Users get nothing since developers don't have the time to also target their system".
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upvoteby jorisw9 hours ago|
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> I do not have the resources to target something to all platforms

Some speculate that agentic engineering will enable the return of native apps

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upvoteby skydhash6 hours ago|
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> I do not have the resources to target something to all platforms

What resources is actually needed? More often than not it just requires good engineering. You do not have to duplicate everything across platforms.

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upvoteby m-schuetz4 hours ago|
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Time. I have the time to maintain a single GUI. I do not have the time to maintain three GUIs. Of course they'll be 99% the same, but checking that this 1% difference behaves and looks fine accross systems adds a substantial amount of effort that I simply can not support. And for what exacatly? I want them to be identical accross systems, not different.
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upvoteby skydhash4 hours ago|
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> And for what exacatly? I want them to be identical accross systems, not different

For your users. Engineering is about designing things for the convenience of the builder, but for the convenience of the user.

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upvoteby jorisw10 hours ago|
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If you think operating systems have nothing to offer in terms of UI patterns or guidance, then yes, that's a different type of consistency.
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