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by GTP3 hours ago |
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upvoteby torginus49 minutes ago|
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Yes, you are right, the only two possible choices are to either give the government an absolute mandate to spy on every citizen, or to abolish the EU altogether, no other option is possible.
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upvoteby logicchains3 hours ago|
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>While the EU is not perfect and surely needs improvement in many areas, it is still better than not having it.

Would you still believe this if Chat Control got though? What good did the EU bring that's good enough to make up for the badness of everyone in Europe having all their private digital communications constantly scanned?

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upvoteby Krssst3 hours ago|
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If Chat Control gets through, it means the Parliament approved it, which means the EU people voted for politicians that supported the idea. If the EU got dismantled, the same politicians would be elected (they won once why not twice) and do it again at the local level. (though, maybe not in every country)
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upvoteby munksbeer2 hours ago|
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> Would you still believe this if Chat Control got though?

Chat Control is being pushed by member states. The people who keep saving you are the MEPs (elected EU MPs).

You would most likely already have chat control if you were not in the EU. All governments around the world are pushing for this.

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upvoteby GTP3 hours ago|
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Yes, definitely. Just as an example, my country wouldn't have a lot of consumer protection laws we now have thanks to the EU. As a concrete example, there used to be a single phone service provider acting as a monopolist and we had the highest phone bills in the EU. When this started to change, it still wasn't possible to keep the same phone number when switching providers, which is a huge thing for businesses and freelancers. The EU forced our government to change this. And I'm not even talking about all the financial help that we got from the EU. Which, admittedly, was used poorly by my politicians. But this isn't the EU's fault, it's their fault.
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upvoteby vrganj58 minutes ago|
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> What good did the EU bring that's good enough to make up for the badness of everyone in Europe having all their private digital communications constantly scanned?

Peace in Europe. You have to remember that the EU is fundamentally the world's most successful peace project, founded after the horrors of WW2 to make war in Europe not just unthinkable, but materially impossible.

Before the EU, we had centuries of constantly being at each others throats. There hasn't been armed conflict between EU members and there won't be for as long as it exists. It worked. It broke the cycle of generation after generation of horrible slaughter.

Chat Control is obviously bad. But fundamentally, the good of peace outweighs even that.

However, one should also note that Chat Control is pushed by the member states and their representatives - the EU is actually the institution that's kept it at bay so far.

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upvoteby atmosx12 minutes ago|
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> You have to remember that the EU is fundamentally the world's most successful peace project, founded after the horrors of WW2 to make war in Europe not just unthinkable, but materially impossible.

You're confusing the EU with NATO. Germany is already planning on re-arming[^1] because NATO is dead. The EU is by all means an unfinished project and if I had to bet, I would bet that it won't survive the next two decades. There's no pro-EU majority in any European country right now. Not one. It's a great idea, very poorly implement that gets (some times unfairly, some times fairly) all the blame for everything wrong with Europe right now. Migration, energy, housing, etc.

[1^]: https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2026/04/22/germany...

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upvoteby vrganj8 minutes ago|
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> You're confusing the EU with NATO

I am not. See the Schuman Declaration [0] for context on why the EU came to be.

> It proposes that Franco-German production of coal and steel as a whole be placed under a common High Authority, within the framework of an organization open to the participation of the other countries of Europe. The pooling of coal and steel production should immediately provide for the setting up of common foundations for economic development as a first step in the federation of Europe, and will change the destinies of those regions which have long been devoted to the manufacture of munitions of war, of which they have been the most constant victims.

> The solidarity in production thus established will make it plain that any war between France and Germany becomes not merely unthinkable, but materially impossible. The setting up of this powerful productive unit, open to all countries willing to take part and bound ultimately to provide all the member countries with the basic elements of industrial production on the same terms, will lay a true foundation for their economic unification.

> There's no pro-EU majority in any European country right now. Not one.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

* Pew Research, May 2026: Majorities in eight of the 10 countries (surveyed) currently have a positive opinion of the EU. [1]

* Gallup, March 2025: No country approves of their own leadership, or that of U.S., over the EU [2]

[0] https://european-union.europa.eu/principles-countries-histor...

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/05/28/in-severa...

[2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/657860/member-states-show-stron...

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