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"just ticking up a version number" drastically understates the headaches of Material UI over the years.

Not a boring application, a very large application -- each major version update was a tedious process because they completely upended many APIs.

We've migrated to shadcn, and upgrades are now easy; we can upgrade a single component -- add the new ones free.

With MaterialUI we had to update EVERYTHING to their new APIs to be able to take advantage of the new features anywhere.

With shadcn we can be selective.

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This sounds like a problem with Material UI being undisciplined with API compatibility, rather than a problem with the broader approach itself.
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MUI release codemods for their major version bumps to ease the migration. Those and TypeScript take out most of the issues with upgrading.

There were a couple of rough migrations though.

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I never understood the copy paste thing. Shadcn just reeks of a fad, and even after doing copy paste and trying it, I didn’t see what the big deal was. But enjoy it, y’all. One of the benefits of AI is that HN isn’t clogged with talk of JavaScript frameworks as much
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I’m leaning towards vendoring for all my new projects.

Grabbing an off-the-shelf UI library is easy in the short term, but it’s usually overcomplicated, implements things I won’t ever need, is hard to tweak if/when you want to distinguish your app from the thousand others using the same library, and when you do decide to upgrade it, all your tweaks break in subtle ways.

What I think would be the best approach is building your own UI library. You own it, you get to reuse it across different projects and maintain the same visual style (if desired), and you add features when you need them.

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> building your own UI library

It's one more thing to maintain, and it's also difficult to push back on things. If you use off the shelf components it's much easier to say to designers and managers that a UX pattern is not available or not valid. You can point to the mature well known community owned UI library you use and make it authoritative. It's harder to do it if you build your own, suddenly each designer and developer is throwing things in there, adding features etc. It's also difficult to agree on the structure, so the components are well thought out, flexible, but also not so flexible to lose semantics. It's not an easy job, do you use slots, composition, rendering callbacks, there are too many decisions and you spend time building the UI library instead of actually shipping features.

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Odd to me when I read stuff like this but also posts about how AI is making everything trivial. Surely a thing that almost every company did in the early 2000s should not be hard today, but of course today you can’t just write HTML + CSS, you must consider every front end framework introduced in the last decade.
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I remember the 2000s web, it was primitive. It's not hard to combine some html and css, it is hard to support more complex dynamic actions and components, all with consistent theming and behaviors and have them composable and reusable.
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To me, that's the value of shadcn (conceptually) - it's nothing more than a tool to bootstrap your own UI library.

It let's you copy in snapshots and change/edit/refine as you go. You own the UI kit the moment you copy it in. I see Shadcn 'upgrades' as nothing more than a stranger's PR to my UI kit, which usually means useless noise, unless there's a specific feature/bug that I need.

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Mantine is brilliant, I can build anything in it quickly and then extend it or completely customize the theme or individual components, but there is a learning curve. I would not call it a giant learning curve.
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I love Mantine. It’s easy to use, full featured with lots of components and helpers, and yet if you need to, you can use it headless and customise it too (I’ve never bothered though; I did add my own additional spacing/sizing options via the theme support though)
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Any direct comparisons to base UI? I've been pretty satisfied with base UI so far, but my usage has been very basic so I'm open to switching if Mantine offers something better.
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Love love love mantine.
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> that should just be ticking up a version number.

Ah, but it's rarely just that in many systems. It can only be just that if the component library does exactly what you want. Unfortunately, it happens quite often that component doesn't entirely do what's needed.

People bolt on extra CSS to the components all the time. Two lines of CSS is very tempting if the alternatives are a few hours of work at least. But those two lines need to be verified against every new feature of the component library.

Do those two line fixes a lot, and upgrading becomes A Project.

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Ticking up a version number is all fine and good until it requires a dependency upgrade you aren’t ready for. If for example you wanted to upgrade MUI from 4 to 5, you’d find react 17 wasn’t supported. And if you weren’t ready or able to upgrade react, then you’d just be stuck using a UI library going more out of date by the day.

With shadcn / the copy paste format, you’ll almost never see that happen. The button shadcn provides for example is just css / tailwind. And if you did ever for some reason want to bring in a dependency for your button component you wouldn’t have to consider its effect on your other UI elements. The rest of your components can live independently (for the most part)

We have customized UI components we got from shadcn and now some use radix and some use base ui, and some have other dependencies or no dependencies at all. Properly tree shaken this is not a big deal at all and we can upgrade components individually as needed.

For boring applications this may be a bit much. But even then if you wait too long and mantine falls behind more than a couple versions, who knows how easy it would be to get your whole project up to date.

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MUI v5 absolutely supported React 17 though. Unless you're thinking of React 16, which hadn't had updates for almost a year when MUI v5 released.
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I don't like the copy paste. Rather use lower-level abstractions for the UI if I know I have to make modifications.
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I think it depends on the project, but I've found that using installable libraries becomes a bottleneck over time as you find yourself running into their limits, or trying to customise them in ways they really aren't design for.

I wrote something about it a few years ago when shadcn was relatively new on the scene https://andrewingram.net/posts/recipe-kits-a-great-alternati...

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Can you explain what copy paste means here?

I use Material UI for all my AI coded applications. Am I doing something wrong? What difference would Shadcnd even make in a world of Claude Code?

Isn’t either infinitely customizable via CSS? So what’s the difference?

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I think it's design / aesthetic choice.
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If you don't need to make any changes, it should be very simple to just upgrade by replacing the components. And if you need to make changes then well it's not gonna work with a traditional UI library.
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Bigger issue ,every app that use shadcn use 100% same. I still have to figure how people differentiate their brand using shadcn.
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The copy paste approach is just a plain bad idea, I am not sure why this doesn't get more criticism
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> that should just be ticking up a version imber.

Is it ever that simple?

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I highly prefer a copy and paste approach. The less npm installs the better.
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As grug, I prefer the paste approach
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> now there is an upgrade ai agent for something that should just be ticking up a version number.

If a component as basic as a button or a list view ever requires an “upgrade”, something is fundamentally wrong to begin with. HTML5, ARIA, etc. aren’t cutting edge technologies that the ecosystem still needs time to figure out. This should be pull once and forget.

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Martine just straight up sucks.

Vendoring your components gives you the best of both worlds. You get a full component library but retain the ability to modify them as you want.

Your AI agent claim doesn't make any sense either. When upgrading normally your component just gets rewritten on disk. When switching from radix to base ui, a more comprehensive approach is needed.

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The ai agent “claim” is from the webpage that is linked to:

When You're Ready to Migrate

You don't need to migrate. But if you want to, we built a skill for it:

pnpm dlx skills add shadcn/ui

Then ask your coding agent:

migrate accordion to base-ui

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This is just an ongoing trend to address coding agents first in documentation, and people / manual methods second.
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> Mantine just straight up sucks. > Mantine is brilliant.

Thanks internet.

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