upvote
It's not that they didn't care, it's that they did care in the wrong way. A non-replacable battery means people will be more likely to buy a whole new device if (when) the battery fails.
reply
To be clear, all the mentioned Nintendo products are already designed for battery replacement, with well-contained battery units and easy connectors, and the batteries are available and problem-free to replace unlike for a certain fruit company.

The redesign is because the ease of accessing the batteries did not comply with the new rules. The pro controller in particular requires almost complete disassembly to get to the module, and the Switch 2's battery uses double-sided adhesive which is finicky. Joycons can also be a bit finicky to navigate for the uninitiated.

Also, as the device is Japanese, it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing), which could surprise some. These are superior for service - Philips screws are specifically designed to strip during assembly to prevent over-torquing - but they do require you to have the right, "exotic" screwdriver. As JIS screwdrivers are compatible with and superior in bite even for Philips screws, it's a good habit to just always use those instead for electronics. iFixit kits and such include them.

reply
I recently changed the battery of my Switch 1, if for most of the process it was easy, and I really struggled on two points. 1) the plastic part into which the screws are screwed broke, and it is tough to remove them. 2) ungluing the battery with isopropyl alcohol without breaking anything was very long for me. I recently changed the USB port of my Fairphone 4 and it was just unscrewing and screwing. So for me it is a great change from Nintendo.
reply
> Also, as the device is Japanese, it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing), which could surprise some.

My understanding is that Europeans also generally tend to not use Phillips screws, but Pozidriv instead.

reply
There are also screws more commonly available than JIS but not as comically bad as Phillips. Hopefully they use those
reply
>it uses JIS screws rather than Philips (in addition to triwing)

I don't think this is an issue for anyone who has had to disassemble a japanese device before, and the bits are widely available online. Countless youtube videos have discussed that JIS vs Philips in the consumer space are largely compatible outside of american aircraft construction.

reply
Phillips Heads: The design is often criticized for its tendency to cam out at lower torque levels than other "cross head" designs. There has long been a popular belief that this was a deliberate feature of the design, to assemble aluminium aircraft without overtightening the fasteners.[15]: 85 [16] There is no good evidence for this suggestion, and the property is not mentioned in the original patents.[17]
reply
iPhone batteries are actually relatively easy to access and replace. The only annoying thing that Apple (and most other gadgets) insist on is adhesive strip mounting of the battery. Just use screws please.
reply
Torx is also common and also way way better than philips. Really we as a society need to phase out philips screws yesterday.
reply
Philips is great for what it's designed to do, strip out.

But for electronics I basically never want that behavior.

reply
I've stripped out every sort of head. It isn't the heads fault really. Lack of thread treatment and/or correct application of torque is the cause and can happen to any head.
reply
So in essence, if you EVER think you might need to disassemble something, you shouldn't use Philips.
reply
The prevalence of Robertson in Canada is amazing.
reply
I keep the Robertson head in my drill because it's pretty much the only one I ever use.
reply
> Really we as a society need to phase out philips screws yesterday.

Pozidriv to the rescue! (just kidding)

reply
I think the more likely explanation is that there was not sufficient market motiviation to include the additional requirement of a user-swappable battery. ie. people care, but they don't care enough or in enough volume for Nintendo to decide it's required.

I celebrate user-swappable batteries and I think I like the battery regulations. I just don't think the Ghost of Iwata is under your bed twirling a Wario moustache while thinking about how to screw you over. The current Switch battery situation is simply a result of user-swappable not being a requirement, among the countless other requirements already in contention.

reply
Disagree. The market will not decide on that, at least for the nintendo product. Your or your kid want the switch and the pokemon and mario and others game, you're buying the switch, you don't switch to something else because the something else allows battery switch.

That's Nintendo's entire business model and the reason why they've been thriving since for ever in gaming and even the bad times where actually positive cash flow wise. They're not losing a single sale because the battery cannot be replaced, unless that sale was far from guaranteed to begin win.

reply
I don't think customers need to be protected from themselves. If they don't like the hardware but buy it anyways because they really like the game, that's a choice. And I feel that when we're dealing with luxury goods, we should give consumers very broad discretion to vote with their money.
reply
"Vote with money" is such a funny talking point in this discussion. It's a metaphor for actual voting, with votes, which the people already did, for politicians who are now protecting their interests. You just don't like corporations being told what to do.
reply
"Voting" with money is an extremely direct way of influencing something - you clearly want it or you don't want it. People definitely wanted Switches already, hence Nintendo is a going concern.

Voting for politicians (if you even bother) who might someday vote for or against something like this is a far, far weaker signal, if any at all. Politicians can easily do things that are vastly unpopular - e.g. in the UK the mass immigration that is clearly deeply unpopular but politicians refuse to change it.

reply
"Vote with your wallet" in a K shaped economy simply becomes the slogan of modern feudalism.

Funnily enough, these regulations were made by policy makers who were voted in with votes, and put such a regulation to its own vote. It's the most democratic way to approach this.

reply
Companies like these enjoy artificial monopolies thanks to IP laws. Why don’t we have the freedom to copy their products and make them the way we want?
reply
This is victim blaming. The customer is not the one deciding make the batteries non-removable. This is protection from Nintendo.
reply
I just don't need a government to declare that I'm a victim by treating me like I'm not capable of saying, "no, the Switch 2 isn't cutting it for the pricetag. I'll skip this gen's Pokemon." This isn't bread. It's a luxury good.
reply
Yes but eliminating unnecessary e-waste is a good thing for everyone.

This isn't about the government being your nanny, it's about the government, long term, building a better more sustainable society for everyone, as it should be doing. And I don't think there's a reasonable objection to that.

reply
As mentioned elsewhere, it's also important to remember that the batteries were fully serviceable - available for purchase, nicely compartmentized and with easy connectors. The products were definitely not designed to die with their batteries. They just weren't compliant with the new rules - this is quite different than a certain fruit company that have historically made battery replacements difficult for even service technicians to complete without consequences like constant user prompts.

I imagine the various products had their specific own conflicts with the rules, like requiring too much disassembly (the Pro controller in particular has to be disassembled from the front first), or the Switch 2 holding the battery with double-sided tape. Not to mention that you might not realize that the screw are JIS spec, stripping them with the Philips screwdriver you found in your drawer. Also triwing.

reply
This doesn't really take into account the real history around user replaceable batteries. It's been happening for years and when there are no alternatives to choose from its not a "vote with your wallet" situation. For example at some point MacBooks just stopped shipping with replaceable batteries and its disingenuous to expect someone to then switch to Dell, Lenovo, or something else. Those platforms can't run MacOS so the choice was made for the users. If you depend on MacOS and the software that runs on it, then your choice was clear--buy a new MacBook with a glued battery.
reply
And replace the entire top case and keyboard along with the battery no less.
reply
How would you ever measure market motivation in such a small market that has max 2-4 viable alternatives?

The market mechanism breaks down in such circumstances.

reply
Consumers do not decide anything, they will buy whatever is in the store.
reply
That's not true, they decide which one of the bad options they want to buy…
reply
I mean, XBOX has been doing replaceable batteries in joysticks since forever.

I have both a PS5 and an XBOX Series X. Whenever I am playing if I get out of battery on the XBOX, I just change them. In the PS5 is not possible.

I don't get what the advantage is.

reply
I don't think that's it for console manufacturers. They make the majority of their money on game sales, so they want the console itself to be used for as long as possible.
reply
It's not about the console itself, but the accessories, anything that makes you buy more controllers means more money for them. And batteries aren't even the worst offender here.

Controllers have been using USB and an almost identical layout since the Xbox1 days 25 years ago, yet most game controller remain incompatible with each other, even within the same company. PS3 won't work on PS4 and PS4 won't work on PS5. Ironically, PS4 and PS5 controller will work on PS3, since that was the first and last console that supported plain old USB HID. Meanwhile Xbox360 had a lock-out chip to prevent third party controller and the Xbox360 controller don't work on XboxOne/Series either. XboxOne and XboxSeries at least are compatible. Meanwhile on PC pretty much everything works.

And then you have the whole stick drift problem, that has been solved since Dreamcast and PS3 SIXAXIS with Hall effect joysticks, but even decades later we still have controllers going in the bin due for easily avoidable reasons.

Rubber coating is another very common way to add an expiry date to devices that wouldn't have one otherwise.

If we wanted to get serious with the whole "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle", there are a lot more low hanging fruit than just the batteries.

reply
That's true for Sony, but Nintendo doesn't sell the Switch at a loss.
reply
I don't understand why battery failure is a "when". The only batteries I've ever had fail in rechargeable electronic devices were replaceable packs where water got into the compartment. Perhaps I've just gotten lucky?
reply
Batteries are chemical devices and have a finite lifespan. There's enough confounding variables involved that some people get real superstitious about it.

Through a combination of internal and external factors, lithium batteries go through irreversible chemical changes on every charge cycle. Total charge capacity always trends down. Depending on a large number of variables, this might happen quickly or it might happen so slow you might never notice at all. It's all down to how and where the battery is used because temperature is mostly what drives the chemical reactions.

The other thing is that lithium batteries which have been deeply discharged below safe levels are permanently damaged. Just like charge cycle wear, this can be immediately apparent, or something that goes unnoticed forever, but the cell is damaged and will never be the same. Recharging such a battery can cause physical damage inside the cell.

Point is, batteries are chemical cells. They don't last forever because most chemical reactions are not perfectly reversible. Their specific application and environment strongly affects how long they last. But we do know conclusively that when lithium batteries are kept hot and charged and discharged at high current (such as in a handheld gaming device), they degrade faster. Cells which are kept at a stable temperature and low currents (such as headphones) degrade very slowly and can last a long time.

If you look past superstition, there's an entire industry that's been rigorously studying this problem for decades. There's a lot of literature and evidence.

Lithium cells do degrade. How fast they degrade depends on cell quality and environmental factors. It is, unequivocally, a question of when a battery will fail. It might well be a decade or two, but it will fail eventually.

reply
Battery failure is a "when" because batteries have a limited number of charge-discharge cycles. Modern lithium-ion batteries have a life expectancy in the range of 300-600 cycles. So if you've never had such a failure, it probably just means you're not a heavy user of your devices.

I try to keep my cell phones as long as I feasibly can. Every single one I've used for more than 3 years has had its battery fail (as expected for a device that sees such heavy cycling). My current phone is on its 3rd replacement battery.

reply
My PSP, maybe five years ago, had a swollen battery. A friend a couple days ago was complaining that his PS4 controller's battery held no charge at all.
reply
The Switch 1 is almost 10 years old. Batteries don't have that much longevity.

And it was unnecessarily hard (actually dangerous due to fire risk) to replace it with a 3rd-party battery replacement due to excessive amounts of strong adhesive holding the battery in place.

reply
My 8 year old switch is happy.

The switch doesn't fast charge at absurd rates and generally has good thermals.

reply
My launch Switch 1 battery is still working. Capacity is probably 80% or less but it still works fine.
reply
All li-ion batteries degrade over time, they may not fail completely, but the capacity will be diminished for sure.
reply
How many years do you use them?
reply
I'd guesstimate 5 or so on average. I have noise-cancelling headphones that are coming up on 13 years soon.
reply
I finally fixed my PS3 and came to discover that the controller batteries are just fine. Good batteries with proper BMS seem to be fine to live a very long life.
reply
My take is they didn't optimize for something that a small percentage of users would have problems with.
reply
It's not really a small percentage of users. All users will have trouble with the battery - eventually. My DS4s ran out of battery life in about three years of usage; I still have one of them that I use wired with my PC, but I absolutely cannot use it wireless. Likewise with my DS5s - one of them barely held a charge 2-3 years in. I'm sure with good battery management you can extend the lifespan to be closer to 5-6 years, like my M1 MBP from 2021 that still has a 9+h battery life (though down from 12 as I remember), but that only keeps them going for a little longer. It's just a fact of how Li-ion batteries work that they will lose their capacity eventually.

E: DS4 = DualShock 4, DS5 = DualSense; these are the standard PlayStation controllers for the PS4 and the PS5 respectively.

reply
Props for using the Apple wording, I guess.
reply
> like all the smartphone brands

But there is at least some argument that smartphones nowadays have some pretty crazy waterproofness that I'm not sure is physically possible with a replaceable battery?

reply
This is not true. There are old replaceable-battery dumbphones that were rated in feet of submersion.
reply
In more concrete terms, there are modern (2025) smartphones like the Samsung Galaxy XCover7 Pro w/ replaceable batteries which have IP67 (1 meter of water for 30 minutes) or higher certification. The back panel popping off too easily (and dumping the battery with it) is one of the common cons with the device though, so while you can get everything it is an extra layer of difficulty to try to design around correctly.
reply
We love to mock flat-earthers but believe it or not there are many people on HN who don't believe gaskets are a real thing.
reply
Battery life is shorter, and some are a tad heavier.
reply
5 years later, after a battery swap, the model with a replaceable battery has a longer battery life than the one stuck with a degraded battery.
reply
More like just 1 year later even if you just store it unused, considering typical battery degradation.
reply
Is it?

>Battery capacity: 5172mAh, approximately 1% smaller than current version (5220mAh)

reply
Quoting just one of the smallest one feels a bit... charged. There's small tradeoffs among all of them when you account for weight.

For everyone else here's the full list:

Switch 2 Battery capacity: 5172mAh, approximately 1% smaller than current version (5220mAh) Weight: Approximately 411g, around 10g heavier than current version With Joy-Con 2 controllers attached: Approximately 548g, around 14g heavier than current version (approximately 534g).

JoyCon 2: Battery capacity: No change. Weight: each 2g heavier

Switch 2 Pro Controller: Battery capacity: 897mAh, approximately 16% smaller than current version (1070mAh). Weight: Approximately 228g, around 7g lighter than current version (approximately 235g).

N64 Controller: Battery capacity: No change. Weight: Approximately 234g, around 1g heavier than current version (approximately 233g)

GameCube controller: Battery capacity: 525mAh, approximately 5% larger than current version (500mAh). Weight: 215g, around 5g heavier than current version (210g).

reply
They quoted what matters the most as it's for a device which has single shortest runtime on a battery: the Switch console itself.

Because who cares if the controller lasts 27 or 30 days? (Or so, don't quite me on exact numbers).

reply
It is typically a 40hr battery life.

~6 hours is quite a drop.

reply
The console one seems the only relevant one. I'm a casual gamer, but the joycon running out of battery doesn't feel that annoying to me. That 16% has a much smaller impact on the JoyCon than on the main device.
reply
I expect smartphones to look more like the Pro Controller tradeoffs than the joy cons. The issue with replaceable batteries is you need the extra space for the battery structure so unless phones grow they'll have lower capacities. There's also IP ratings, phones have pretty good IP ratings these days often surviving drops in puddles etc where none of these products have any official IP rating to preserve when adding doors etc for replacement batteries.
reply
I'm baffled that we still are thinking that we want thin phones. We have a gigantic camera bump that would be removed if the phone was thicker. Who wants a razor in their pocket, like really?
reply
Not only that, but if phone batteries were user replaceable, they could be sold in multiple capacities. So people that want "thin" phones can keep their camera protrusions, and the people that want more battery capacity could get a pack that allows the phone to sit flush on a table.

Literally win win win.

reply
You say that like it'd be a simple process to accommodate the different thicknesses of battery..
reply
I'm not sure what you're trying to say? The replaceable battery is either thicker, or it isn't. There's not much to accommodate.

This is already a thing for some [dedicated] cameras like the Canon EOS series.

reply
Didn't care? Consumers don't care about this. Like most EU laws, this is a solution in search of a problem. Nintendo, like every other tech company, did the research and found that people simply don't care about this stuff. Now we have more complicated devices and have to buy our own batteries for what, exactly? There is just very little benefit here.
reply
This is like the Germans decommissioning their nuclear power plants, What have they gained by doing so? Dependency on the Russians?
reply
I think consumers do care when they have to throw away a device or pay for a repair because the battery health has significantly degraded. This is really similar to the argument against having a standardized charging port or requiring usb-c charge ports for cellphones.
reply
Yeah, I agree. Also, there's little evidence that consumers really care about this. Batteries last a long time now.
reply
> they just didn't care enough

Of course there are extra costs. The parts and the extra assembly isn't free and it does add up.

reply
We are talking about plastic parts and metal tabs. I'd be shocked if the actual impact on per unit price was above $0.10.

Perhaps the most expensive part of this whole process is then engineering time to figure out how to place a replaceable battery.

reply
> So there was nothing "limiting" them from making it already with user-replaceable batteries, they just didn't care enough until EU forced them (like all the smartphone brands). Love EU.

At the very least, the design will be more complicated to accommodate replaceable batteries. That costs money. There's a lot more to "limiting" than functionality.

reply
They could've just designed it that way to begin with.

Thanks to this regulation, they will the next time around.

reply
A more complicated design costs more money to build/test and introduces more modes of failure in the final product.
reply
You are generalizing. The design may very well be simpler, just more expensive.
reply
I'm not too worried. Removable batteries were standard fare for decades before Apple came around and set negative precedent. I don't recall it ever causing issues.
reply
The current hack is to buy devices made for disposable batteries and then use rechargeables. Electric toothbrushes almost all come with built-in non-removable batteries... except the cheapest ones, which also work fine.
reply
I’m happy that my gadgets no longer need expensive AA batteries.
reply
...or NiMH AA rechargeable batteries if you could be arsed.
reply
It's amazing how quickly we forget
reply
Removable batteries were standard fare for decades before Apple came around and set negative precedent.

You must be newly hatched.

I have plenty of devices in my gadget box with non-replaceable batteries that pre-date Apple's iPhones, and even its iPods.

reply
Sure. But I bet you also have plenty of gadgets with replaceable batteries.

Just because something is standard fare doesn't mean it's the only option. Point is, it was quite common in the past.

reply
Except for an up-to-16% reduction in capacity, and slightly increased weight, depending on the product.
reply
You mean an up-to-5% increase in capacity, and slightly decreased weight, depending on the product?

The truth is that the product with the 16% reduced capacity (Switch 2 Pro controller) is 7g lighter and the one with the 5% increased capacity (Gamecube controller) is 5g heavier.

Besides those two, the general idea is that the capacity is the same with 2-3% extra weight.

reply
Some of these are no change because the existing versions already have pretty user replacement friendly batteries. The JoyCons for example already use the hard sided cells with plugs so I'm not sure what the change will actually amount to. If I had to guess it's maybe to change the glue or method of holding the battery in place to satisfy the ease of replacement requirements.
reply
The 16% is for the Pro Controller though, to be fair.

The Switch 2 itself loses 1% of battery capacity, most other products none at all.

Your framing seems a bit selective to the point of being misleading.

reply
16% less battery life in a controller is pretty significant!
reply
I wonder if it will feel significant. I can't remember being limited by the controller battery. The runtime on a single charge is probably still going to be measured in weeks, and at that scale I feel like it doesn't really matter.
reply
Yes but it's limited to only the Nintendo Switch 2 Pro Controller.

The basic Joy-cons have no change to their battery capacity.

reply
It's because they're basically already using user replaceable batteries, to the point I'm not sure what the SKU revision will actually do. My best guess is they won't be gluing the battery down any more? Otherwise there's not anything I can see they would need to change.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Joy-Con+Battery+Replacement/113...

reply
Glad to hear, because that's how much a battery will degrade by itself in 1 to 2 years if you're average lucky.
reply
Agreed, that one's not great. But it seems to be the only product that has serious trade-offs.
reply
How do those stats look 5 years later, when one is stuck with a degraded battery, and the other has had an easy battery swap?
reply
seeing as the product itself already advertises that it's best to not charge it to 100% feel like nothing's being lost here no matter how one tries to spin it
reply
You still lose capacity with a smaller battery, even if you don't charge it to 100%.
reply
Important to understand non-functional requirements (NFR). They’re saying the core features are the same. They are not saying they’re identical in weight, repair cost, water/dust resistance, battery lifetime, or cost.
reply