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The last three times that Europe had a large independent military force(s), things didn't end so well for the world.

International commerce and business and shared democratic norms are a fscking good things. We have lost the people who learned that the hard way, and they are being replaced with people who have never read a history book.

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> The last three times that Europe had a large independent military force(s), things didn't end so well for the world.

Name one country with a large military force that done more good than bad with it? Seems to come with the territory that if you have a large military force, you somehow need to use it for something as otherwise it falls into disrepair, and that "something" tends to be trying to spread your culture one way or another.

Come to think of it, seems China is the only country so far (in modern times) that haven't abused their military to enforce their will on smaller countries, basically every other superpower been abusing their military to make the world worse.

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> Come to think of it, seems China is the only country so far (in modern times) that haven't abused their military to enforce their will on smaller countries

Philippines would disagree with this one.

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Yeah, that's my bad, I later correctly used "superpower" rather than "country" but missed that on my first usage. Was talking about "the big bois countries" :)
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While I applaud the strides the EU is taking to decouple militarily, it's still a long ways away from replacing the security umbrella provided by the US military. The EU doesn't even have a single command and control structure (although NATO provides a lot of interoperability between European militaries). It's no knock on Europe's efforts--it's just that the dependency on US military was almost a century in the making--it's not going to be undone overnight. But Europe is moving in the right direction--I just hope Europe stays the course and continues to take it seriously.
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> The EU doesn't even have a single command and control structure

That's... how EU works, intentionally? It's a decentralized union more or less, we're still independent countries with our own laws and what not, each country have their own command and control structure for their own military, on purpose.

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They aren't talking about the EU per se getting a military command layer, they're talking about the problem faced by a group of sovereign entities which mostly overlaps with EU member states.

Specifically, the problem of how those states can individually choose to plug their forces into a practiced system of military coordination.

Today, they can do that with NATO, but if they want an alternative, it doesn't exist and it will be difficult to build.

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You mean decades; especially if they keep up waffling.
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This is funny because "waffen" is the German word for "weapons"
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