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I prefer to see C++ as a failed experiment that just keeps going and going rather than garbage. The software industry learned a lot from it, both good and bad. But yea, I haven’t programmed in it since the late 1990s.

by scj4 hours ago|

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I'd phrase it differently, C++ was a set of power-to-performance trade-offs that were optimal in the 1990s.

Time has moved on.

More importantly, a typical 1990s C++ dev was likely someone who learned assembly, then C or C++. Meaning they already knew how to control hardware / memory allocation, and C++ was just a new set of abstraction tools. It was a step forward for them.

To modern devs, C++ is a step backwards. And a tough one at that.

by einpoklum3 hours ago|

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Actually, C++ was rather poor in the 1990s if you ask me (albeit still very usable). Time has moved on - but so has the language. Its implementation tradeoffs were much better IMNSHO after 2011; but it wasn't there yet. And it still isn't! It has a lot of warts that have to stay for backwards compatibility (which is a design goal); and then, it has annoyances I can't believe are not yet addressed (like - where is my 'restrict' keyword, damn it?!)

Anyway, your view of the 1990s devs is incorrect. Almost no programmers who took up C++ learned assembly first (and few ever learned assembly). I believe most of them learned Pascal, or C, or scripting languages like Perl or Tcl or Unix shell scripts. Some may have learned Lisp or some ML variant as their first language, or Fortran 90. They didn't take a step back, they switched to a different set of language design goals and tradeoffs, and found it, well, serviceable.

It is indeed a bit peculiar that the language has had this much staying power. For C, it's much more understandable - because C is such a small and simple language (and one which, as you suggested, often feels like a bunch of syntactic sugar over PDP-7 assembly). But C++ is big, and has its baggage and warts and flaws. I think it's probably because it's been able to adapt and stretch just enough under the influence of trends in programming languages, for people not to ditch it for something new. Maybe Rust will change that; but - C++ might very well "eat its lunch".

by scj35 minutes ago|

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> "because C is such a small and simple language (and one which, as you suggested, often feels like a bunch of syntactic sugar over PDP-7 assembly)."

I didn't describe such qualities of C in my previous post. At all.

And to be clear, I didn't mean "devs who learned how to program in the 1990s". I meant "devs who were active in the 1990s", which would have mostly been devs who came up in the 1970s and 1980s (where learning BASIC, then assembly was common).

I also made no claim about first languages in my previous statement. I only said there was a likely progression from assembly to C or C++ (for a C++ dev).

My point was, the talent pool in the 1990s would be able to handle the downsides of C++, and the upsides would have been a bonus. Whereas modern devs aren't used to the downsides, thus C++ is a step back for them.

What I should have added is that for devs in the 1990s, there would have been very few large legacy C++ codebases.

by kazinator2 hours ago|

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C++ has staying power because there was a surge in its use in the 1990s and early 2000s. Some of those people are now senior managers, who approve C++.

by bigfishrunning1 hours ago|

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> Some of those people are now senior managers, who never bothered to wonder if better tools exist

Ftfy

by usrnm4 hours ago|

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You're wrote those words using technology built in C++. Just saying

by bigfishrunning1 hours ago|

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I'm using words using technology that would be much better built on C or lisp or smalltalk or any number of other languages. C++ is very popular because it was promoted in the right places, but is too abstract for low level tasks and too fiddly and fragile for high level tasks. It's like using a swiss army knife for construction when there's a whole box of better tools for every task.