upvote

points

by toolslive8 hours ago |
comments
upvoteby mrexroad8 hours ago|
next
[-]
Re-reading it atm, for first time in ~25years, and I’m struck with how much of historical context my kids don’t have that I’d want them to before recommending it to them. I feel I had more of that context when I first read it, but maybe I’m rose tinting my initial reading.
reply
upvoteby Telemakhos5 hours ago|
prev|
next
[-]
It was required when I was a student in American schools. I don't think it really had much to do with democracy, though. I suppose there are lessons that you could generalize to any state, like "don't hire mercenaries," but I wouldn't say that it gave lessons especially relevant to either Athenian style democracy or to the mixed constitutions called "democracies" from the late eighteenth century to the present.
reply
upvoteby 5 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
deleted
reply
upvoteby otherme1238 hours ago|
prev|
[-]
> The Prince from Machiavelli is required

In Spain? Never heard of that, and would not make sense. An italian author writting about politics in Florence?

reply
upvoteby toolslive7 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
I have some Spanish ex-co-workers. I just verified it. They both had it on their required reading list in high-school. (one of them is in his 30s, the other in his 40s)
reply
upvoteby otherme1234 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
As a born, raised and currently living in Spain, I had never heard that. We have plenty of classical author required in high school: Cervantes, Quevedo, Benavente, Bécquer, Machado, Lorca, Pérez Galdós... Most modern and cool teachers also recommend contemporary authors like Ana María Matute, García Marquez or Jordi Sierra i Fabra. The foreign author most recommended has to be Roah Dahl, Michael Ende, Jules Verne or Exupéry.

I never heard of anybody who has read Machiavelli, Shakespeare, Tolstoi, Dante or any other "advanced" foreign author in high school.

There are some links with some "obligatory readings" for high school: https://www.edu.xunta.gal/centros/ieslamascastelo/system/fil..., https://www.educa2.madrid.org/web/lengua-castellana-y-litera... http://iesparquegoya.es/files/lengua/Libros%20de%20Lectura%2... or https://iesalgarb.es/wp-content/uploads/sites/25/2023/07/1.-... (first links when I search "lecturas recomendadas ESO") where you will find exactly one non-spanish writting author: Ray Bradbury's 451. A spicy teacher, for sure.

Maybe your coworkers read The Prince, but that is not a general recommendation or even something you heard from time to time.

reply
upvoteby toolslive1 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
These guys are from Galicia. Maybe that makes a difference.
reply
upvoteby otherme1231 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
One of those links, the first, is from a Galicia school. Incidentaly, I am Galician, and I read "O príncipe, de Maquiavelo" when I was around 40.

The difference in Galicia is that we also have "Literatura Galega", that requires us to read Castelao, Neira Vilas, Rosalía, Murguía, Otero Pedraio... I bet other Comunidades with their own language also recommend local writters.

Unless they went to some kind of private school, where they found a weird literature proffesor with political inclinations (the kind that also recommend Gramsci or Rothbard like it is "literature"), or maybe the requirement was from a philosophy or a history class, I never heard such a thing. Not saying that they are lying, but it is not a common recommendation, even less a requirement.

reply
upvoteby Muromec7 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
Why would it not? Divine Comedy and Jack London were both required reading in my Ukrainian school (in translation of course). So was tolstoevsky unfortunately.
reply
upvoteby otherme1234 hours ago|
parent|
next
[-]
Because we have a lot of authors from what we call "golden years", and "Spanish Literature" teachers tend to be extra proud of them. Why would they recommend Dante, when they have "Cantar del Mío Cid"? A Shakespeare translation or original Cervantes? Mark Twain or Benito Pérez Galdós?

I don't mean that non spanish authors are worse (I dislike many of them because they were forced to me too early, when I preferred Dahl or Tolkien), I am just saying that it makes no sense to recommend Shakespeare instead of Cervantes in Spanish Literature class, where they recommend/require books. I can't imagine Russian Literature teachers requiring "Episodios Nacionales" authored by Galdós, a book about spanish history/politics in the XIX century over any russian author about any russian theme.

reply
upvoteby anthk3 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
As a Spaniard I wish we had Mark Twain instead of the drowsy village dramas from the so-called Golden Age.
reply
upvoteby otherme1231 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
Yean, sure, sometimes it is like they train us to dislike those authors. But as a spaniard, had you ever heard of someone who was recommended/required to read Maquiavelo? Maybe some weird philosophy teacher? Even more, do you know a lot of people that knows even the name of the book "El Príncipe", and not just "Maquiavelo: el fin justifica los medios", and that's it?
reply
upvoteby Mainan_Tagonist6 hours ago|
parent|
prev|
[-]
Why unfortunately? Tolstoy and Dostoevky are generally recognized as great authors. Being Russian does not make them retrospectively Putinist, does it?
reply
upvoteby lmc3 hours ago|
parent|
[-]
Well, War and Peace is 1200 pages... fuck that at age 15 or whatever XD
reply